Jaeger LeCoultre LED

[bucko170]

Nice watch but I think the estimated value might be a little on the high side.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 069wt_1214

"Estimated Market Value: $3,000 (Estimated price is based on our experience in the marketplace)"

[markyd3]

must be a very limited experience then!!!! LOL

[abem]

$3000? Ha. That's off by at least one order of magnitude.

As an example, a few weeks ago, I picked up an almost identical Wittnauer version of the same watch for $134 including postage:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0495467020

Aside from the unique aesthetics, it has quite a nice day of the week module with very large, bright digits.

-abe.

[Mr Frequency 32768hz]

I think he is on the jungle juice. Id love to know who told him its worth $3000. I just had to send him PM.

[bucko170]

I picked up an almost identical Wittnauer version of the same watch for $134 including postage:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0495467020
Aside from the unique aesthetics, it has quite a nice day of the week module with very large, bright digits.-abe.

Nice catch Abe, $134 has to be a bargain.

Id love to know who told him its worth $3000. I just had to send him PM.

I wonder what his reply will be, probably silence.

It's now going to attract a couple of crazy bidders and sell for $4000 just to make us look like numptys.

[clockace]

judging from the button layout and the dot display and the battery hatch covers that might be a hughes module? it would seem that jaegar being so proud of manufacturing there own would not do that. i have a watch that has an identical layout and display. it says digital/usa on the back with an HH in a circle stamped on the back. pushing the display once shows hr/min. no colon. pushing the button at 8 o'clock gives the date, no month. pushing both simultaneously gives secs. also every month has 31 days. a real pain to set. peter

[bucko170]

judging from the button layout and the dot display and the battery hatch covers that might be a hughes module? it would seem that jaegar being so proud of manufacturing there own would not do that. i have a watch that has an identical layout and display. it says digital/usa on the back with an HH in a circle stamped on the back. pushing the display once shows hr/min. no colon. pushing the button at 8 o'clock gives the date, no month. pushing both simultaneously gives secs. also every month has 31 days. a real pain to set. peter

It is a Hughes module.....JLC must be cheapskates.

The watch you describe with the HH is a Hudson Harris, the logo you describe is shown about half way down this page http://www.ledwatches.net/logos.htm

[clockace]

yeah mick, that's it. the jaegar has only a 10k gf case, which is what i have on mine. mine looks much nicer than that one tho' and i got mine for free, so i guess $3000 is a tad tooooooo much! peter

[Old Tom]

Curious, no JLC back on the watch, just the generic Wittnauer one- I have noticed about 60% of JLC LED watches don't have the proper signed JLC back on and looking at the very poorly screened logo on the crystal I wonder if this a genuine JLC or a bit of naughtiness?

All the JLC LED models have Hughes modules in (but just which one originally I couldn't tell you as many seem to have been swapped later)- I have counted six different JLC models to date which I am pretty sure are genuine. The Longines/Wittnauer/JLC connection is interesting- should type it up- I spent time on it because of the curious watch in my avatar. What sparked this is that I went to an auction in London where they had a proper fully signed JLC LED for sale and when I flipped it over to look at the back the serial number was just one removed from my avatar watch (I was wearing it that day cos I suspected it was from the L/W/JLC stable). As far as I know my watch is as it left the factory- I bought it a long time ago (1987), non-working, with well leaked battery wells.

To date, none of these "dark moon" watches have turned up with a makers name on the crystal- there has been a suggestion that they were watches sold to Hughes employees but I think this is unlikely. I favour the "short prototype case run" offered to assorted Swiss manufacturers theory myself but with no takers which eventually found there way into the general market- they really are quite uncommon, I think there are four documented examples of this case to date.

[Huertecilla]

It is a Hughes module.....JLC must be cheapskates.

´Assembled in Mexico´

It was not an issue of ´cheap´ or other but rather consequences of strategic decisions about wetehr or not to invest in R&D in quartz and or solid state modules.

Rolex p.e. first joined in with the ESA project leading to the Beta but also invested in developing their own solid state ca. 7065 and the Oysterquartzes.

Omega was in the Beta development too yet still bought ´Time Computer´ modules from Pulsar through a deal with some share holding interest bought by Omega. They too went on to develop their own technology like fitted in the Marine Chronometer.

JLC was at the time suffering from the same badge engineering that just about all Swiss brands have experienced when ownership passed through investor groups.
The group owning Longines and JLC had a joint business interest with Wittnauer and shared the exact same watch with badge engineering.
The bracelet on this model was used on a Pulsar model too. Simply bought from Longines.

Apart from an early interest Longines did not join in with the quartz development and bought in from ESA, Hughes, Fairchild, really ánybody for the LED and LCD models. Even the Longines ´Research´ models feature a run of the mill outsourced module.
JLC who were under the same umbrella were given movements bought from GP for the analogue quartz models.

Anyway, the JLC is not really a JLC but a bagde engineered product.
This model it is nothing more than an illustration of the sillycontents of the brand value of a ghost image of a badge.
It is nothing exceptional or exclusive to this model. It applies to current models even more. It just is stark naked on thís one.
It illustrates more clearly than anything that the price of many watches consist large on the percieved added value of the brand.

[retroleds]

[
It is a Hughes module.....JLC must be cheapskates.

I know the Hughes aren't as coveted, but I'm thinking at this time we should look at their module selection as very prudent. The Hughes is dependable, functional, available and fairly repairable. They didn't screw the consumer with a proprietary, problematic module.

THE JLC and Wittnauer models are not identical - the angle of the glass is slightly different, along with the corner radius. It's a real tiny difference, but you cannot force the one into the other's case without doing some glass grinding, and then the fit would be poor. I'm comparing the two right now....seems like the JLC were finished a lot nicer.

Abem - your's was a steal! The Wittnauers with the lugs that way seemed to have been orginally outfitted with a leather band, but your Longines link band looks great(curved lug band completed the "factory" look nicely). Sort of an after-factory upgrade, with OEM materials.

Yeah, that seller is dreaming...I'm thinking a really minty JLC, in a box, is about $1200US, +/-400, depending on luck, bidding wars,etc. Maybe $600-800 for a Witt. model in really super shape, w/box? If they get $250 they'll have done well. My $0.02

[Huertecilla]

[
It is a Hughes module.....JLC must be cheapskates.

I know the Hughes aren't as coveted, but I'm thinking at this time we should look at their module selection as very prudent. The Hughes is dependable, functional, available and fairly repairable. They didn't screw the consumer with a proprietary, problematic module.

Prudent sums up Longines nicely in their outsourcing of the solid state modules.
No trying to re-invent the wheel and not buying anything fancy. They did design neat looking watches that were ´simply´ working.
That does not advance horology anywhere but unloading basically prototypes on the customer to limit/recover development costs is another.
The Doetsen book gives mány examples of the latter.

Anyway, whatever the JLC will go for, it started out with a dependeable module that today can be sourced with relative ease shoúld it fail.

[bucko170]

It is a Hughes module.....JLC must be cheapskates

Agree with the comments, the Hughes are good modules, I was joking with the cheapskates remark, I should of ended the statement with a ' ' or a ' '

[retroleds]

No trying to re-invent the wheel and not buying anything fancy. They did design neat looking watches that were ´simply´ working.
That does not advance horology anywhere but unloading basically prototypes on the customer to limit/recover development costs is another.

Not sure that every time piece has to advance horology - simply working is just fine when you really just need to know the time. LEDs were advancing horology by getting people used to digital timepieces.

Seiko and Junghans digital watches from that era were scarcely any better.

Not sure how either the JLC LED at issue, or the Wittnauer look-alike could be considered "unloaded proptotypes" - it appears that several hundred(1000+?) of those watches were manufactured between the two companies.

[Huertecilla]

Not sure how either the JLC LED at issue, or the Wittnauer look-alike could be considered "unloaded proptotypes" - it appears that several hundred(1000+?) of those watches were manufactured between the two companies.

Hence I wrote that they were not

There is a tension between advancing horology or selling proven yesteryears technology.
The tension is the investment needed. The tension between up front investment and return from the market in an evironment of intense competition caused many victims.
It is amazing to read how many movements/modules were returned to the manufacturers.

As we BOTH wrote, the Hughes one is positive example of reliably consolidaded early solid state quartz LED. Far form the end stage of development of horology though.
The Orient touch is an example of the further development of ditto.
Solid state quartz then goes LCD and the technology keeps developing.

[retroleds]

There is a tension between advancing horology or selling proven yesteryears technology.

How does horology get advanced? I'm thinking the Seiko E-Ink watch doesn't advance horology - it does nothing particularly new and the canvas(screen) doesn't make the painting.

I disagree that those JLC watches are rare(and someone said something about those not appearring with the logo on the crystal?) We had a guy from Georgia a year or so ago on ebay slowly selling off a total of 28-29 of those, all properly logoed. I have [in hand]two of the JLCs and 3 of the Witts, and have worked on at least a dozen of those for customers in last 3.5 years. I'm sticking with my estimate that several hundred of those cases were made. Uranus calcs. are rarer, Pulsar Pulses'(of any material) are rarer, 14k P3s are rarer, many of special finish Wittnauers are rarer. The rare one is the JLC with the single lug case design and the hard attached mesh band, vs. the- standard 2 lug, leather banded one.

The cases were apparently made by HH - nothing odd about that, watch companies have divided up the making of cases, bands and movements between different companies for centuries.

[rewolf]

How does horology get advanced? I'm thinking the Seiko E-Ink watch doesn't advance horology - it does nothing particularly new and the canvas(screen) doesn't make the painting.

That depends: horology = "the art or science of measuring time".
The Seiko EPD doesn't *measure* time any better than other RC quartz waches. But e-ink vs. LCD is IMO almost as much a progress as LCD vs. LED. I've been wearing an e-ink watch for the past 3 months and know what I'm talking about. I'm still fascinated every time I look at it. The Seiko SDGA is not the first watch with an e-ink display, but the first wth a high-resolution matrix e-ink display. Besides that it bears no horologically relevant innovation.
Oops, just noticed this isn't even the Seiko SDGA thread...

[retroleds]

How does horology get advanced? I'm thinking the Seiko E-Ink watch doesn't advance horology - it does nothing particularly new and the canvas(screen) doesn't make the painting.

That depends: horology = "the art or science of measuring time".
The Seiko EPD doesn't *measure* time any better than other RC quartz waches. But e-ink vs. LCD is IMO almost as much a progress as LCD vs. LED. I've been wearing an e-ink watch for the past 3 months and know what I'm talking about. I'm still fascinated every time I look at it. The Seiko SDGA is not the first watch with an e-ink display, but the first wth a high-resolution matrix e-ink display. Besides that it bears no horologically relevant innovation.
Oops, just noticed this isn't even the Seiko SDGA thread...

Hey, threads are meant to be twisted, tied and looped . I'd whole-heartedly agree that the e-ink is a great advancement, and obviously is using a completely different display analogy. The e-ink is a picture of the entire screen, our earlier digitals are merely static characters of a pre-made shape and size.

I love the spirit of our new friend Huertecilla, but I think he is missing the point of a site like this: this is a fan site, for digital watch enthusiasts. A watch is the complete item - it's look, feel, weight AND timekeeping ability and technology. Some people care about the outside more than the inside, as long as the inside can keep within 20-30 seconds a month. We may talk about horological advances in passing, but I'm thinking we have plenty of discussions and arguments, just trying to suss out the details of the 35+ year old watches we have. Advancements in horology, other than in the lab, are probably going to be farther and farther apart for the consumer. Once you've checked the time, you still need to go on living. Not everyone cares to know how sausage is made.

[Huertecilla]

Not everyone cares to know how sausage is made.

True.
I do though. This is curing nów;



and here in the process, EPD and all



Anyway, just bought an Optel from Greg Zanoni.
That was at the forefront of advancing display technology but performance wise as a time keeping instrument it was an also-ran.
The Seiko EPD is indeed from LCD like from LCD to LED. Just as much pushing things forward as the development of the LCD.

Does anyone know which was/were the first to use OLED? I find the idea of an organic electroluminescence layer in a LED quite fascinating.

[LEDluvr]

LOL Huertecilla! It appears you are a hands on kind of guy.
But please.... take off the EDP Seiko! At least for that kind of work, put on the Casio. I can't bear to watch! (no pun intended)

[Huertecilla]

I've been wearing an e-ink watch for the past 3 months and know what I'm talking about. I'm still fascinated every time I look at it.

Glad to read that

Did you by chance check the stand alone performance?
I and two other owners have and I am curious about others although I do not expect much difference given the quality thus expected tight mean deviation of the specs. Three consistant results from random specimen already gives quite a reliable indication.

How come you did not put photos of the dismantled entrails on the web yet

[Huertecilla]

LOL Huertecilla! It appears you are a hands on kind of guy.
But please.... take off the EDP Seiko! At least for that kind of work, put on the Casio. I can't bear to watch! (no pun intended)

I did put it aside when I killed the 350+ kilo Iberico as I even would take off a Casio G-shock for thát...
Put it back on for the butchering and I can tell from thé most hands on first hand experience that the buttons and bracelet clean very well.