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1974 Gladius DSM

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Adam

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1974 Gladius DSM

Post07 Jan 2012, 21:25

Just arrived back from holiday with lots of packets to open. This Gladius was in one. I think it is a DSM panel. The insides are very clean, the case is Hong Kong made. I haven't seen it before. I've put a battery in but nothing.
Firstly does anyone know of the make and secondly the screen looks OK is there anything else I should check. It would be great to get it running again.
Oh and its huge

Happy New Year

Adam

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retroleds

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Post07 Jan 2012, 21:34

There is a Microma LCD with that same bastard button pattern. I doubt it is DSM, the backplane of the display while off looks too clean and reflective. Get that module out for some pictires......back around that time Rod Stewart sang, "every picture tells a story, don't it." Still true. :-) .
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Adam

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Post08 Jan 2012, 20:21

Here is the board Ed.
Other than this there is only a plastic case for the board to sit in. There is a connector to the back of the battery on the case back and the spring protrudes through the plastic casing and also touches the case back

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Kasper

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Post08 Jan 2012, 21:11

when i have a watch that does not work the first time or one that i bought and did not work.
- first i check everything...if i cannot find a problem..i just put the battery in it and leave it lying around for 1 week. I have several oldies that suddenly grasp there last chance and start working after a few days.
If it doesn't work after 1 week i start digging deeper.
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retroleds

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Post08 Jan 2012, 23:38

Too funny - I looked at this thread on my other monitor(dual setup, different brans) and I can see the DSM matrixing. And with the module out it becomes more apparent.

Try powering it up. If you have a timer, check for oscillator activity.
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Nov. 2022 - back in business!! BItter divorce is in home stretch, come grabs some great deals, I had to open the safe . . . damn attorneys. piss.
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clockace

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Post09 Jan 2012, 02:51

in my limited knowledge of things electronic that chip looks just like the mkI/II synchronar chip. same dimensions, same connector layout. i also have had success with installing the cell and just set it aside for a while. i think it was ed that suggested that to me. seems the circuitry has to "relearn" what it is supposed to do. peter
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Old Tom

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Post09 Jan 2012, 14:33

You are going to need some serious test equipment for this one!- It is a DSM watch and uses the Intel 5801 oscillator chip (the small ten pin chip) and the 5202 counter/decoder/driver chip. As always start by measuring just how much current is being drawn (or not)- 20-30 microamps is entirely normal, lower than this and then the oscillator is probably not running. Check this by using an oscilloscope to observe the signal coming out on pin 8 of the 5801- should be a 64Hz square wave. If you have this move on to the DSM panel power supply. The panel needs 12 volts to run and this is provided by the tiny toroidal transformer and the two diodes. Measure the voltage on the anode of the blue zener diode- should be close to 12 volts. If not probe with oscilloscope to see that it is being pulsed by the transformer. Now here's the real problem- if you don't have 12 volts then either the transformer is duff- the very fine wires have a tendency to corrode at the point they enter the solder or the driver transistor which is hidden under the display panel has failed- you could also check pin 4 on the 5801 to see if it is delivering pulses at 1024Hz.

Possibly the very high value 1/20w resistors (there are three 22Meg pull ups and a 10Meg oscillator bias resistor) have gone low- no display would suggest the 10Meg resistor but in this case the oscillator would not be running.

I have found the 5801/5202 combination to be fairly reliable and most problems have been in the power supply part.
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simone

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Post12 Jan 2012, 20:06

Beautiful watch!
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Re: : 1974 Gladius DSM

Post15 Jan 2012, 19:37

Old Tom wrote:You are going to need some serious test equipment for this one!- It is a DSM watch and uses the Intel 5801 oscillator chip (the small ten pin chip) and the 5202 counter/decoder/driver chip. As always start by measuring just how much current is being drawn (or not)- 20-30 microamps is entirely normal, lower than this and then the oscillator is probably not running. Check this by using an oscilloscope to observe the signal coming out on pin 8 of the 5801- should be a 64Hz square wave. If you have this move on to the DSM panel power supply. The panel needs 12 volts to run and this is provided by the tiny toroidal transformer and the two diodes. Measure the voltage on the anode of the blue zener diode- should be close to 12 volts. If not probe with oscilloscope to see that it is being pulsed by the transformer. Now here's the real problem- if you don't have 12 volts then either the transformer is duff- the very fine wires have a tendency to corrode at the point they enter the solder or the driver transistor which is hidden under the display panel has failed- you could also check pin 4 on the 5801 to see if it is delivering pulses at 1024Hz.

Possibly the very high value 1/20w resistors (there are three 22Meg pull ups and a 10Meg oscillator bias resistor) have gone low- no display would suggest the 10Meg resistor but in this case the oscillator would not be running.

I have found the 5801/5202 combination to be fairly reliable and most problems have been in the power supply part.


Tom, great write-up thanks for sharing that with us, I hope it gets Adam up and running. Best (belated)new year wishes to all.

Cheers

JS
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Kasper

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Post15 Jan 2012, 19:59

enlighten me pleae...DSM stands for..missed that one in my learning curve.
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egomon

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Post15 Jan 2012, 23:02

Very nice watch, I'm green with envy.

clockace:
in my limited knowledge of things electronic that chip looks just like the mkI/II synchronar chip. same dimensions, same connector layout.


I think it does not look like MK1 or MK2. Synchronar chip has 2 or sometimes 4 connections on the end's of the chip, this has 8 connections.

What is DSM panel?

Egon
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BENRUS

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Post15 Jan 2012, 23:22

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clockace

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Post16 Jan 2012, 03:25

egomon, you are so right. my bad. :oops: :oops: should have studied it better. peter
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cobra007

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Re: : 1974 Gladius DSM

Post16 Jan 2012, 12:07

Old Tom wrote:You are going to need some serious test equipment for this one!- It is a DSM watch and uses the Intel 5801 oscillator chip (the small ten pin chip) and the 5202 counter/decoder/driver chip. As always start by measuring just how much current is being drawn (or not)- 20-30 microamps is entirely normal, lower than this and then the oscillator is probably not running. Check this by using an oscilloscope to observe the signal coming out on pin 8 of the 5801- should be a 64Hz square wave. If you have this move on to the DSM panel power supply. The panel needs 12 volts to run and this is provided by the tiny toroidal transformer and the two diodes. Measure the voltage on the anode of the blue zener diode- should be close to 12 volts. If not probe with oscilloscope to see that it is being pulsed by the transformer. Now here's the real problem- if you don't have 12 volts then either the transformer is duff- the very fine wires have a tendency to corrode at the point they enter the solder or the driver transistor which is hidden under the display panel has failed- you could also check pin 4 on the 5801 to see if it is delivering pulses at 1024Hz.

Possibly the very high value 1/20w resistors (there are three 22Meg pull ups and a 10Meg oscillator bias resistor) have gone low- no display would suggest the 10Meg resistor but in this case the oscillator would not be running.

I have found the 5801/5202 combination to be fairly reliable and most problems have been in the power supply part.


Thanks for the detailed explanation! It really is an interesting watch, but with these details it becomes something that for sure is repairable!
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Old Tom

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Post18 Jan 2012, 14:29

Adam sent me this (monster!) watch and after a little poking and measuring I found the small upconverter transistor to have died. So now I have to find a suitable replacement. It looks like this;-

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It is NPN, Silicon, 40 Volt CE breakdown voltage and in the tiniest T package I have seen (the round black part is about 2mm across). So, two questions;-

1. Does anyone know the true systematic name for that package.

2. Anyone know where I could find a suitable replacement- I do SOT-23 SMD packaged transistors of a suitable type but they are too small to fit the pads (and the pinout is wrong). At a pinch I could solder short extender leads to the transistor and Silver epoxy it in ( to prevent the solder remelting- only a couple of mm from end to end).

Oh, apart from this the watch seems to work- wiring it up to suitable "life support" brought up a misty white 12:00 on black ground display with flashing colon.
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egomon

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Post18 Jan 2012, 15:43

:O`~ Very nice job, and glad to hear that the watch has still life in it.

I'm completely sold to early DSM watches now- I do not own one yet but , as now, I'm on a lookout for DSM to my collection. :O`~ :O`~ :O`~
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cobra007

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Post18 Jan 2012, 22:52

Great work!

It's probably the only type of digital watches that are repairable. Which actually means, they should keep their value better than later (unrepairable) types.

Do you have the pin out of this transistor? I think you still need to use the SOT-23, just extend the legs with some wires, very easy.

Are you 100% sure it is an NPN transistor and not a mosfet? It could also be that the coil is not working properly anymore and that this fried the transistor.

Michel
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Adam

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Re: 1974 Gladius DSM

Post31 Jan 2012, 15:51

Old Tom ROCKS!
Now i've stopped bouncing up and down with joy I thought id post what arrived today in the post from Old Tom. A working Gladius DSM. I am so chuffed my first working DSM, puts all my Micromas to shame.

Tom you are great, Thank You!

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Kasper

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Re: 1974 Gladius DSM

Post31 Jan 2012, 16:03

Adam,

is it possible to make a small vid of the watch working. Just to have an idea how it looks like.
I never have seen one before in real.
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azimuth_pl

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Re: 1974 Gladius DSM

Post31 Jan 2012, 17:37

more or less like this, it's just a gif but you can imagine that the crystals flow like boiling liquid

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Adam

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Re: 1974 Gladius DSM

Post31 Jan 2012, 18:14

I uploaded movie to youtube. Apologies for the orientation and the yellow colour hue I havent worked out how to adjust the yet on my Nikon D90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5meynErP ... e=youtu.be

Adam
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dutchsiberia

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Re: 1974 Gladius DSM

Post31 Jan 2012, 18:39

Awesome watch! I'm green with envy :mrgreen:
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