Making new modules for old watches

[DragonFly2]

Administrator's note: this thread has been split from this one.

Hi everyone,
I have found the last few posts perticularly interesting.The reason being that along side my OLED/LED watch development projects that some of you may have seen posts of in other areas of this forum, I have been considering also offering a limited set of replacement modules for some of the key brands discussed on this forum.
My thinking on this is to increase the ownership pleasure of those among us (myself included) who have a watch that is irreperable and of no practical use because the module is dead.(Who wares a watch that doesn't work!)
If I were to do this I would make the functionality subtley different (as well as the apperance of the module itself-not to mention some quality improvements, things have moved on in the last 30 years) so that it would not facillitate fakers, and preserve and maybe even enhance the value of genuine origional working time pieces.

[gjlelec]

What a great idea, i personally wouldnt hesitate to wear a watch with a non original module. Whats the better of the two scenarios- non original working watch or original non working What makes/ calibers were you proposing?

[dot matrix]

I agree, this is a great idea. Since a few years back, I've been thinking about what could go in a new replacement Synchronar module and what the best way to construct one would be. The Synchronar is a fantastic looking watch, I'd love to be able to get something going with one of my dead ones.

[retroleds]

Guys, I have found the last three posts really interesting - I have been wondering if/when people would relent a little on the all original aspect, so realistically, I am glad this provoked a few of you to say,"yeah, I would like the thing working, even if not all original. But you have to live with the reality that you will no longer have a rare watch, only a "collectible" watch if the rarest parts are cheaply obtainable. IMO, with the exception of high-end pieces that are high-end because they are all original, worrying about original modules and crystals IS a little silly....on mechanical watches people were always getting crystals and miansprings replaced, without a single concern as to who manufactured the part. A lot of people collect non-working items for their shear rarity and style....of course you wouldn't wear a non-working watch!!

Rarity...reminds me a Larry Flynt quote(founder of HUstler, adult men's magazine), something along the line of" Women are the ones who really control the world, because they control the pussy". Or this one:"The only question to ask yourself is, how much are you willing to sacrifice to achieve this success?"

Yes, make a Synchronar module replacement, since it seems to have a high rate of failure, is far-fetched(IMO)to consider fixing and the case/watch is highly desirable.

Re: 400 some people on this forum. Virtually everyone who has posted on this site seems to have a pretty good command of english, yet less than half the world's population speaks english...so I am guessing there is more of a fan base out there than we think. There are probably another 400+ on asian sites, and a dribbling of them on Arabic and hispanic sites, as well as on sites for people who just don't want to "do" english, period. Sometimes it seems sad that so few people post, but consider how few people ever write to a local newspaper with a circulation of tens of thousands, or to a magazine with circulation in the millions?

I just receieced a TC1 with a chipped crystal...what to do?

[DragonFly2]

Thank you all for your much valued opinions.
I will consider the possibility of creating 2 or 3 diferent standard replacement modules. (I know this will limit the possibilities somewhat initially, but better to make a managable start than too many promises)

These would all be based on the same electronic components but would be different PCB profiles some with button operation and some with the reed switches.(The software could be slightly different so as to keep the button functionallity close to the orrigional module)

I already have a design(s) on which to base the replacement modules, which with a different PCB(s) would serve this application well.
I have some questions for you all:
would it be better to re-use the origional display or go with a modern display?
Which specific models (and modules) have the greatest need?(synchronar accepted)
Would a fitting service be usefull/essential? (I know that many amongst us are capable of physically swoping a module)

[retroleds]

Oddly enough, replacement modules might actually INCREASE the value of currently "low end", but all original LED watches.

Better not sell my Timex yet! ROFLMAO!

[dot matrix]

Oddly enough, replacement modules might actually INCREASE the value of currently "low end", but all original LED watches.!

Yeah, like an original Texas Instruments LED watch, that'd be pretty slick.

would it be better to re-use the origional display or go with a modern display?

I'd prefer original LEDs, but either way, just so long as the watch works.

I wouldn't use a module replacement service, it's hard to imagine anything easier to do to a Synchronar than swap out the module.

Solar panels and magnetic slide switches would be a plus; but I could imagine 4 push-buttons in those two slide-switch slots.

Thinking on it a bit more, there are really a lot of options: Would you put the solar panels on the top and the read-out on the wrist side (as the watch was designed); or would you maybe replace the panels with REALLY REALLY BIG LED digits on the top of the watch? The possibilities are endless.

[Synchroserious]

Yes makeing replacement Retro version Synchronars is one of the projects I still have planned to take care of.Ofcourse the insides would be all original Synchronar Circuit boards with the inventors advanced circuitry inside. No cheap alternatives that fail and are farless programmed and accurate will ever be accepted.Some members may opt to wait for the Retro older model official Synchronars that will naturally be priced lower than the even more advanced circuitry of the current RWR LE MK IV.I also have been working on an AMBER VIEW GOLD RWR LE with special features I have installed. Some members have been sent a photo of the clear view Lexan Top limeted edition.One can see thru and visualise the reed switch making contact,amongst other things.The Amber view Gold is so labeled because the color of the gel being a light amber.Thus the watch itself will have no hint of red until the Wire bonded original L.E.D is lit.Otherwise it will blend very well with the Solid Gold.

[gjlelec]

i wonder if it would even be possible to make a less reliable module today than the modules of the 70s, given that knowledge marches on. It is truly a testiment to the inventors of the time that their products are still operational after 30 odd years but would it be possible today to make a car as poorly handling as say a Morris Marina (USA members- think of a lincoln continental- only slightly better). I dont claim to be a Techie and know what makes a module fail, but i cant think of any industry thats advanced so far in such a relatively short period of time as the electronics industry (certainly not Lincoln) :D

[collector]

As a preface, I personally do not any non working watches of any technology. All my LED's are 100% original. I must say several of my Bulova Accutrons do have replacement parts but all are genuine Bulova NOS replacements - no secondary market stuff.

Which leads me to my feelings about new modules - I guess it was inevitable that someone would start / develop new modules for all of the great 70's cases. If the modules are well done why not? The serious collector will be able to distinguish the difference and value the watch accordingly. Some new collectors will be burned by paying too much for a LED Watch with a new module, but so be it. Look at what someone just paid for a "newer NOS" 3502 Pulsar (see eBay category).

BUT, I do hope the new modules only fit the "Quality" cases - Pulsar, Hamilton, Synchronar, Omega, etc. Lets not revive the lower ends.

[dot matrix]

For some reason, I feel differently about electronics than about mechanics. When it comes to things like automobiles or mechanical watches, I'll only use original parts from the original manufacturer. But for electronics, I see absolutely no problem with using any part from any manufacturer as long as it gets the job done.

[Synchroserious]

Anybody that wants to construct something is certainly free to do so.As long as it is not used against the common grain of authenticity and later resold as an original work of art or ignorantly proclaimed to be better than the original.Actualy it would be original only in the sence that it was altered.There is nothing wrong with new ideas and being successful with a fix it yourself Synchronar(with my help or not) with your own endless add ons, but the time to change a legend is not always up to popular vote,cheerrs to the VW Bug. I will admit this is regarding high end digitals authenticity and it would only be an improvement to install modern modules into the the shell of fly by night digital or namebrands no longer in existence and no one to offer answers.

[T-bird]

I didn't know about this project.

What I can say? A great idea. Period.
It'll never, ever distract from a perfect original watch and will never "pollute" the market, because collectors know what is what and what is worth.
But, let's admit it, having new modules to reanimate otherwise dead classic watches is everyone's dream. I'd buy some immediately. After all, when some NOS module show up on eBay, they earn big money. Non original, modern modules can offer an economical alternative to all of us who want to wear, along with collect.
Some scam artist could resell the watch as original? Sure, but anyone can adapt a different module to make a watch work and sell it as original, if he or she is dishonest. Even now. This is inevitable, and the presence of replacement modules won't make the scenario worse.
A dead watch is useless.
A working one is magic.

How many of you are ready to crush their car just because the only part to repair it is "not original"? Come on...

Ah, by the way:
Don't bash Lincolns too much. All the bugs on the windshield are actually those small British "sports cars"

Just kiddin'.
Al. :D

[retroleds]

....anyone can adapt a different module to make a watch work and sell it as original, if he or she is dishonest.

I'm thinking that manufacturers change suppliers of parts all the time, so with the exception of differences in quality, how is it dishonest to drop in a module from the same time period, with the same functions(or better)? I haven't heard of anyone here having company records that would prove that, for example, Wittenauer ALWAYS used a Hughes module. Maybe there was a hitch in delivery one month and they ran out a few thousand with a National Semi module in them - who knows?
Even the companies that had very custom modules made seem to have sometimes ended up with different quartz crystals, LED drivers and LED segments within the same products line. The Synchronars I have opened show some differences in a few of the surface mounted components. Someone else here put it very well months ago,"redundant cases filled with redundant modules."

T.G.I.F.....I need a Beer!!

[DragonFly2]

So gauging opinions, there seems no real preference for origional display re-use if possible.
But in a drop in replacement a new type of display would be OK.
It is worth noting that modern displays that are anything like the 'origional' ones, are virtually non-existant.Thats why I put forward the idea of re-use.
As I suspected dead Synchronars seem to be the most in demand for a replacement module. It would be usefull to hear about any other modules eg Pulsar P1-4,omegas and Bulovas etc.
I think it's only fair to say that it will only be practical to consider the more valuable rarer brands although a custom service could be considered.
As I sugested in my earlier post only 2 or 3 different modules would be offered initially.
The idea behind the module replacement service is that in the case of the Synchonar the inner circuit board would be replaced along with the old power storage cells .The solar cells and plastic mouldings would be retained (if still viable). I know that what people would really like is a 'drop in' replacement (complete and ready to go) but this initially would not be offered but may be available later.
To put it simply only the module would need to be sent in, not the whole watch.
For other brands the origional board would be replaced and the origional plastic carrier would be re-used (thats the plastic part that supports the circuit board and makes it fit the case) and possibly the origional display transfered to the new board.
My objective here is to help people with a great looking watch case, but a watch that can no longer light up and tell the time.

[DragonFly2]

One other point I would like to clarify is that the replacement module is based on the new watch technology developed for my new watch range.It does incorperate the latest technology and is not based on the low cost blob of goo 'retro LED' watches that we have seen so much of in recent years.

[retroleds]

dragonfly: I like your enthusiasim for this potential project, but in regards to the Synchronar, you would want to build a complete drop in...the old solar cells, IMO, are rarely possible to reuse, due to damage from the opening process. See, no matter how carefully opened, after 30 years a Synchronar's potting gel has [often] gone from the consistency of a light jelly(impervious to alcohol, naptha, acetone,petroleum ether and both muratic and phosphoric acids) to a consistency more akin to a partially cured silicone caulk or lightly chewed bubble gum. So, it often will cling to the display and the solar panels, ripping off major chunks of both as you lift off the top of the case(as if it matters that the damage is only minor, any is deadly to function). Possibly Howard Reihl knows of a way to open them and/or remove the potting gel without causing damage that he would share.... :?

[Synchroserious]

Dragonfly is 39 years late on the seen,and has not participated in all the hard work it has taken to bring truth to this forum. Grasshopper on the other hand refuses help when offered and therefore was unsuccessful.

[DragonFly2]

Synchroserious,
who or what is Grasshopper?Help for who and with what?
What is this truth you mention?
The 'scean' as you put it vanished (sadly for us all) for a number of years.
Porsche didn't pioneer the motorcar (automobile) but fans and detractors alike recognise it as a quite respectable effort even though it was 50 years late!
My comments on the 'low cost blob of goo' watch modules refer to the black epoxy used in C.O.B (chip on board) far eastern sourced modern mass machine made LED modules.Which are quite the opposite of what you or I bring, or wish to bring to the market place.

Little1up,
thanks for your input, I take your point about the difficulties involved.It is also quite possible that there is no solvent for silicon based gels.

[Synchroserious]

All you would need is to hit the PM button,the most obvious thing there is to tinker with.

[gjlelec]

dragonfly2, i think the proposed replacement module project is very exciting, i would love a working synchronar but have always been put off bidding for the non working ones by the assumed difficulties in getting one repaired, to be able to retrofit a new module/solar panel (which i assume would be more efficient than the original)This would send the prices on of the existing ones skyrocketing and likewise with the working originals. Roger Riehl wanted to create a bombproof watch and he bloody well achieved it, but his success in the sealing process appears to be the death knell for a lot of the remaining units. Is your project still in the planning stage or have you created any modules

[retroleds]

Which high priced watch holds the record for HIGHEST FAILURE RATE?
Which high-priced watch is virtually impossible to repair?
Which "factory trained",former employee of said high priced watch company never shares any helpful information beyond correcting people on which model they have?
Which "factory trained",former employee of said high priced watch company thinks he needs to insult the intelligence of people who have purchased WORKING "fly-by-night" watches(his words), which are giving daily pleasure to their owners?.
When a product has a high failure rate, sometimes you are better off not WASTING THE EFFORT to try and fix it.

"Grasshopper" recognizes boy have so little power, he needs to pull legs off all grasshoppers he catches, to convince himself he is a mighty warrior.

Directions from a blind man? I'll take my chances on my 40-ish years of electrical experience and tinkering....MY DAD was teaching me electrical principles before you were even born!

Howard, you are only 39 years old....it's not like you were wqorking at the factory in your diapers!