HAMILTON Pulsars

[bruce wegmann]

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the relationship between the Hamilton Watch Co. and Time Computer, Inc. The popular perception seems to be that Hamilton owned Time Computer. It did not. Both were owned by a parent corporation, HMW Industries. Thus it is not surprising that TCI supplied modules for Hamilton-made watches [their arrangement with Omega was similar, but I'm sure it involved a lot more negotiation]. And while there are no Hamilton watches with Pulsar markings, there are Pulsar watches with Hamilton markings, making them a true "Hamilton" watch.
The entire production run of 400 P1s bears the Hamilton name on the case back [as well as the 5-pointed star indicating the case was manufactured by the Star Watch Case Co.]. It seems reasonable to assume that the Time Computer manufacturing facility was not yet up and running in early 1972, and there was tremendous pressure to get some watches completed and on the publics' wrist [they correctly guessed that whoever was first to do so would command the lion's share of the market]. Being "sister companies", it would have been a straightforeward matter to enlist Hamilton's co-operation in that effort, and in exchange, that Hamilton would request that their name also appear on the watch [and since it would have benefitted both companies, Hamilton thus associating itself with a revolutionary new technology, and TCI becoming connected with Hamilton's name and established reputation for quality, Time Computer could hardly have refused them].
So, besides the P1s, are there any other Hamilton Pulsars? Actually, yes!I had thought not, but a while back, while preparing a [goldfilled] P2 for restoration, I noticed the caseback was marked "Hamilton Watch Co.". This was a watch that was certainly totally original, as it had not been worn for nearly thirty years, and had been obtained from its' original owner. It had a very low serial number [11XXX, and it is important to bear in mind that the serial numbering started at 10001; I have not heard of any P2 with a serial number lower than that...if anyone has one, I would very much like to hear about it!], and the rare finger-tab type magnet door. So it would seem that a limited number of P2s were also assembled at the Hamilton factory. Once TCI was able to assemble watches on their own, there would have been no further need for those watches to have Hamilton markings. Judging by the frequency of their appearance, I would guess that the Hamilton-assisted period was quite brief. No models besides the P1 and P2 are known with Hamilton markings.
The question now is: How many are there? Serial No.? SS or GF? This inquiring mind wants to know.....

[ledwatch]

Hamilton owned Time Computer. It did not. Both were owned by a parent corporation, HMW Industries.

Hi Bruce, good discusson topic and you make some interesting points but as a point of interest:

''The Hamilton Watch Company'' incorporated and became ''HMW Industries Inc''. which had various divisions producing, Hamilton, Pulsar, and other watches, so it is fairly true to say that Hamilton owned Time Computer, and also Pulsar because they were all just brand names and registered trademarks. Proof of this is shown on the very earliest P2 user manuals from Aug 72 :


So ''HMW Industries Inc'' didnt own Hamilton Watch Co....... Hamilton Watch Company became ''HMW Industries Inc'' with various divisions and trademarks some of which were Pulsar, Hamilton and Time Computer.

I bet John Bergeys' payslip said Hamiton Watch Company before 1972.

[rewolf]

I'm afraid I can't contribute anything new to this discussion, but that user manual scan is interesting: "PULSAR and COMPUTER ar registered trademarks...". COMPUTER? a trade mark :?
BTW: found this article in eetimes some time ago, it seems to tell the whole story, also about the relationship between the companies, most of it sounds familiar to the LED watch web surfer, don't know however if it's true or complete...

[Majestyk]

Did that early P2 you found have the old, trimmerless, module?

[bruce wegmann]

Yes, the module was the earliest, one-trimmer type, without the coarse-adjust, octagonal one on the front. With the exceptions of the display and the clock chip itself, the layout of components is totally different from the later, smaller circuit board usually seen in P2s [and all P3s]. The display is in what is called a beam-lead package, and the pinout is incompatible with the display used on the later boards [even though, from the front, they are virtually identical]. Measurements on my Analyzer suggest the single barrel-type trimmer on these earlier modules had a somewhat wider range of adjustment [an additional + or - 10sec/month]. Still, it seems that many of the crystals have drifted outside of even that tolerance, and the great majority of these modules keep rather poor time. Incidentally, these were the module type that was installed in most P1s during the recall [as the original P1 modules were found to be hopelessly unreliable], although at least one P1 is known with the later module. Sadly, this also means that most P1s now run well outside of the original 5sec/month accuracy tolerance, but since the replacement of a timing crystal on a P1 is no simple matter, most owners have been content to leave them as they are.
Still looking for some feedback on the Hamilton-marked P2s...?

[bruce wegmann]

Still waiting to hear about another Hamilton-marked P2. I think it is in the highest degree unlikely I have the only one out there; that caseback had to have come off a specially-made stamping die...and it would certainly have been used many times [a thousand, perhaps?], given the expense of making it, though it would seem to be limited to the earlier serial numbers [does a Hamilton VIP exist?]. The hunt is on...something for all you P2 owners to do over the holiday weekend...?

[Higgie]

My oldest P2 is a VIP from 11-72.
It has the early single trimmer module.
The back is signed:

*14K gold bezel
stainless steel back
11150

No Pulsar, nor Hamilton on the back

[bruce wegmann]

Thanks. My Hamilton-marked specimen is 14K GF, serial number 11871. Bracelet date is 8-72 [pretty early, I would think; my P1s are dated 2-72 and 6-72]. I have a 2980, serial 10282, dated 12-72, so unfortunately, there is no iron-clad correlation between bracelet date and serial number; but at least, when another Hamilton P2 is located, it will give us some idea of the total production. I'd like to post a pic of the caseback; can someone help me with that?

[Seer Taak]

You have two P1s Bruce. Superb 8) Would that be one for your collection, and one for knocking around in, for every day use? :D

[bruce wegmann]

Have had three; one went to a new home a few months ago. Just a lucky convergence of circumstances for them to cross my path. As for actually wearing them; I have done it, but only a couple of times, and EVER so carefully. Mostly, they sit in the case [or vault, usually], and look glorious. Until I had the chance to really look at one close-up, I didn't realize they had the "Hamilton" name on the back. Never have heard a rational explanation of the serial numbers though. Known serials of watches span more than 400, yet only 400 are supposed to have been produced. That would have to mean numbers were skipped, and we will never know which ones, because most P1s will never be accounted for [only 26 known now]. Did this number-skipping occur during the production of other gold Pulsars? I suspect it did, especially on the P3s [where there is the further complication of how many were on leather straps, rather than bracelets]. Oh, to have a time machine, and a few hours to go through Time Computer records...! All in all, it would seem that true "hamilton" Pulsars are rare indeed.

[azimuth_pl]

Some additional history to clear the ownership changes:
At the beginning of the 1970s, a big part of Hamilton Watch Company was owned by Katy Industries. Approximately in 1972 when Hamilton had financial problems (maybe due to big investments in the led technology?), Katy Industries established HMW Industries, which took over the ownership of Hamilton Watch Company and a group of other companies. Thus it's not exactly correct to say that HMW was formerly Hamilton but for the public a short explanation like that was easier. Later on that year Katy separated the electronics division of the former Hamilton and called it Time Computer Inc. with the Pulsar brand name and John Bergey as president (formerly director of research at Hamilton).
After this restructurization in 1972 Katy sold 30% of Hamilton to a Swiss company SSIH (which is now Swatch Group or earlier Swiss Microelectronic and Horology, better known as SMH). The rest was sold in 1974 thus from that time Hamilton is just a Swiss brand name.
The Swatch Group also owns Omega thus by buying the shares of Hamilton/HMW they gained access to the new LED technology for the Omega Time Computer which was the first LED in Europe.

[bruce wegmann]

This just goes to show how badly corporate financial mechanations can muddy up history. But in the meantime, until that bucket of worms gets sorted out, has any found another Hamilton-marked P2? Still looking...

[fronzelneekburm]

Ah, I always find these "this company owns that company" relations difficult to understand. But always gives much interesting history when you understand it completely...

Thanks for the brilliant infos by all you "researchers". Dumb Fronzel Neekburm always just thought HMW meant something like "Hamilton marvelous watches" or so. Cant always be easy... :wink: