Holy Grail for Sale

[LiquidLed]

So guys, how deep are your pockets: 8944577202

[h00hbt]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8944577202

/H

[Mr Frequency 32768hz]

Wow, the worlds first LED watch has come up for sale, ( well second if you include one of the 6 Hamilton prototypes but they where never for sale ). What a beautiful watch this is. When you have one on the wrist it looks and feels like no other. "Big old chunk of 18k Gold".

[azimuth_pl]

Nice watch and good investment however investing that money in something that might go dead any day should be considered with care.
I think this was the story with this piece for sale as it has been modified and fitted with a P2 2900 module which can be differentiated by the light-sensor located on the right side of the display. Not mentioning the first electronics made by Electro-Data which have been withdrawn from market, all other P1s should have a 2800 module with the sensor placed below the display.

[digibloke]

Oh dear. Bit naughty of Phil not to mention that.

P2's with the old 2800 module do show up very occasionally on ebay, but it still wouldn't be original even if you used one of these as you'd have to deal with the reed switches being in a different place.

It's still a wunderbar cool watch though. One day...

[Majestyk]

Oh dear. Bit naughty of Phil not to mention that.

But this would have been done by Pulsar, right? The case, as I understand it, can not be opened up and Pulsar had a lot of failures with the original module, so it's not like Phil, himself, or someone else, put in another module. So in a sense, would it still not be considered an original P1?

Jeff

[LiquidLed]

Please note:

Please don't speculate, guess, argue about speculating or guessing on an argued guess about anything to do with LedWatch (aka Phil). He is unable to or wanting to respond.

go here:
http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=1419&post ... c&start=24

[retroleds]

And to think I missed the last 4 minutes of bidding due to a phone call!!

[collector]

I realize Ledwatch cannot respond, but in my opinion, if he knew the module was possibly replaced it should have been described / explained in the item description -NO EXCEPTION!!!

Also, I do wonder how azimuth_Pl came about his information about the module. Azimuth - can you possibly explain how you came about the information on the module???

Again, Ledwatch can't post a reply or provide more insight, perhaps someone who does correspond with him can ask and clarify???

[LiquidLed]

I realize Ledwatch cannot respond, but in my opinion, if he knew the module was possibly replaced it should have been described / explained in the item description -NO EXCEPTION!!!

I am not going to be drawn into this, i have nothing to do with the in's and out's of whats gone on in the past. (with reference to replying on Phil's behalf)

But just an open question about eBay and your response that I have quoted above. As I see it there is a perfectly good "Ask the seller a question" facility where if further information is required buy a potential buyer. If i had the cash and was going to buy something that important I would make darn sure i would ask the seller MY relevant questions.

So I don't see a problem, it's good old Buyer Beware - But in the case of this P1 some lucky b**tard, has got a bargain as I see it, wish I had the cash and stopped waisting it on cars and stuff

[azimuth_pl]

hey, I'm not saying I'm a guru in Pulsars, but I know a lot and in big part thanks to Phil himself. Phil might not be responding, not because he doesn't want to. Nobody must be online all day long... (ps. I've just found out that Ledwatch has been banned from this forum).

I'm not saying that I know the details of the P1 which Phil had sold, but I have two eyes and some knowledge. So far I had one P1 in my own hands and seen at least 5-6 others on eBay and collector websites and all had the 2800 module.

The modules have been discussed many times on the forum. The early P2 watches were fitted with the 2800 modules (with space for one reed and horizontal sensor) and they were sold after the P1 hit the market.

The 2900 module was introduced approx. in the 2nd quarter of 1973 (with vertical sensor and space for two reeds so the same platform could be used also for the P3).

I had a few P2's and one numbered approx. 28000 had a 2800 module and a later one numbered 33000 had the 2900 and the swap was made approx. mid 1973 based on the sales documentation for these two watches. Also the P3 was introduced around this time so it didn't pay to produce both the 2800 and 2900.

So this P1 was either returned for warranty service and fitted with a later module or it was repaired long after. And no, I'm not saying Phil tinkered with this piece. However a 100-300$ P2 can always be robbed to bring a 10.000$ P1 back to life.
Everything was clearly visible on the pictures so if the seller is happy with his purchase then everything is OK. I don't think a yuppie had won the watch as that kind of person wouldn't even notice the difference. A led collector should have easily noticed the vertical sensor and thus was probably aware of this.

And yes, the case can be opened. Pulsar didn't have the intention to make an "openable" watch, however it can be opened as it is soldered together.

[retroleds]

As a bidder on that item, I can tell you that I would be glad if it was the 2900, if the company saw fit to use it as the replacement in factory repair returns. Like any other factory recall - to protect the public and maintain company reputation. First made is highly over-rated when it comes to quality and durability.

[azimuth_pl]

You're right Ed, but all recalled P1's had Electro-Data modules changed to the reliable Pulsar 2800 modules, so if this one has a 2900 it turns out that it was a later repair of the first recall-repair ;)
Even P1 leaflets show Electro-Data modules instead of Pulsar modules.

[The Time Computer]

The buyer should be happy that for over $10,000 he got a 201 module. (Just to clairify, there were no such modules as a 2800 or 2900?). The ED (Electro-Data) module was costing Hamilton $700 a piece and they were out of contract with ED when the first P1 was sold, plus ED did not have a warranty on the module. The ED module had problems, it just had too many parts to fail, and some did! Hamilton had worked jointly with ED for several years and the relationship was not good, ED was always behind and not delivering as they promised.

Hamilton developed their own module, the early version 201 (with the single trimmer) was finished before the May 6th P1 release. Some evidence shows not all P1s left the factory with the ED module, or at least were recalled (from dealers) before they were sold. I know some original owners who bought their P1 that had the 201 module. I know of no working ED module, there may be one somewhere but only for historical value would I want one and certainly not in my 10k watch!

The recall was costly for Hamilton and for the most part the Pulsar project had now been turned over to the newly formed subdivision of HMW, Time Computer, Inc . HMW was the same company that owned Hamilton and the Pulsar brand name was NOT owned by Hamilton but by Time Computer, Inc.! Hamilton had $60,000 invested in each of the six prototypes that were never produced and they were now selling the P1 to dealers for $1,050 (1/2 of the $2,100 selling price). With a module price of $700, a solid 18k case and bracelet, a colored sapphire crystal and everything else you can only imagine how long it took TC to break even!

Time Computer had developed a second version 201 module, it had duel trimmers, these two versions of the 201 can be identified by the location of the light sensor seen through the crystal under proper lighting and the obvious appearance of the second trimmer. You can also see pictures of both versions in a previous post. These same two versions of the 201 were also used in the Pulsar P2 models, again, depending on manufacturing date as to what version was installed. The second version has proven over the years to be the more reliable but many early version 201 modules are working fine. These 201 modules and all others from there on were manufactured in-house at the Lancaster facility. TC need no longer rely on any other company for modules.

As for the P1, there is no particular relationship with serial numbers and module version. When a P1 arrived at the factory, the late Jean Wuischpard open and closed the case for the technical department to install the ?Latest? version 201 module. It depended on ?when? the watch was returned as to what version was used.

This posting is protected under the US Copyright laws and shall not be reprinted without the permission of Dennis L. Klein.

[azimuth_pl]

And such discussions make this forum a valuable source of knowledge.
As the most popular P2 Astronaut is a 2900 model, I used 2800 to differentiate one version from the other, otherwise it would get confusing. However I think somebody else also used the 2800 code for the earlier module.
Because the P3 (using the same platform as the late P2) was introduced in fall 1973 I'd say the P3 module was created around the 2nd quarter of 1973, so if the P1 recall was made in 1972, was it possible to insert a late P2 module so early in 1972? Or was the recall of P1's a long episode spread over a year or two?

[The Time Computer]

azimuth_pl,

No disrespect intended, you know me, I only like to talk facts and any reply not correcting the model numbers would just not be fair. We already have enough myths already. That?s how the ?Greenie? and the ?Euro? got started, I know of no evidence either one of these model names came from the Time Computer team?

Remember, many members are paying attention and trying to piece the Pulsar Project together Historically so comments on this forum sometimes are taken as facts in their little note books. Again, nothing personal and I would have corrected any previous posts had I seen them. It just so happens that I get a flood of emails when something like this comes out on public forum?such is the case here!

Contrary to some articles, evidence shows ?NEW? P1s sold long after the ?All were sold in 3 days? claimed in one news article. Also, some high end jewelers only got one P1 to sell, it sat in the display until it was sold! Buyers of the P1 were typically wealthy and may have moved around or just missed any mailings from TC about any recall. They simply contacted TC when it stopped working, this in some cases took some time! . . . . I guess it is even possible there is a P1 or two that was never sent back?

This posting is protected under the US Copyright laws and shall not be reprinted without the permission of Dennis L. Klein.

[azimuth_pl]

Thanks Dennis, you're the Guru :)

So it turns out that Phil's P1 might be as original as it can be.
Such discussions always bring a lot of detailed history to the surface.
However as previously stated a P2 can always be robbed to save a P1 so they would have to be opened to check for quality and age of repairs and thus prove their authorized service.

[The Time Computer]

So it turns out that Phil's P1 might be as original as it can be.

As I can't be certain because the serial numbers are blocked but that P1 may be one of many P1s I have restored in the past. If it is the very watch I think, I can say with certainty that it is 100% factory, like most every P1 is. The buyer most likely got a P1 just like the rest of us. It's a shame somebody didn't bring this post to my attention before the end of the auction. I suspect somebody didn't bid because they were unfortunately misinformed or misled to believe the watch wasn?t authentic!

Those who contribute to this forum should think about the consequences of their statements! Discussion is fine as is opinions. What is said as ?fact? should be backed up with fact or mention that it is only an ?opinion?, otherwise such a post should not be made. This is not directed at any one person, it?s a general statement! It?s a Plea!

[azimuth_pl]

No worries Dennis, the post was entered after the auction was finished and did not affect the bids. On the other hand it wouldn't reach that price if somebody would suspect anything.
Also this might be another P1 than you had serviced, it might be one which Phil bought last year on eBay for approx. 7000$
Btw, I know this forum should be as precise as possible but bear in mind that maybe only 1% of the members are real experts with hard-copy evidence of history. So we all learn from these discussions and that's the main idea around the forum. Otherwise we would all be writing books ;)

[Majestyk]

Well you have two choices with the P1. One with the original module which won't work, unless it was never used much and had the batteries taken out, in which case it will eventually fail. Or one with a factory replacement that will work. I'd rather the later. :)

[gjlelec]

has anyone out there admitted buying the 18k P1 To own such a rare thing must be such a buzz, got me thinking anybody own more than one of those

[gjlelec]

i can reveal to those interested that i have had a reply regarding my last thread (re- owning more than one 18k P1) from someone i consider to be a reliable source- that they have owned three 18k P1s and still retain two of these. Anybody else out there with two or more i wont name you if requested not to, this is just for curiosity sake. As you may or may not be aware from my previous posts, Omega LEDs are my thing,i dont know why the Pulsars don't hold the same attraction but for whatever reason they don,t. My grand plan was to collect every Omega LED model produced, preferably a mint version for drooling over and a nice version for wearing (wife permitting) Of course the fly in the ointment is the 18K TC1. Dont worry ,i thought , there are at least 47, :D twice as many as the 18k Pulsar P1, just wait with wallet poised and one will turn up. But - DISASTER, i have learned today from the same reliable source that there are only 5 known examples existing I may as well plan to wear the Mona Lisa on my wrist. I cant believe there are only five left.Please prove me wrong guys