Omega TC I or II crystal

[rklumpp]

Hi,
I'm in search of a crystal for a Omega TC I or II. Can anybody help me?

Thanks in advance.

Remy

[gjlelec]

Hi, the crystal for tc1/tc2 is available in two versions, gold logo/ lettering for the yellow gold watches or white logo/lettering for stainless or white gold watches. Up until very recently both versions were available from omega for about ?20 ea. The white logo type is now considered by omega to be obsolete (i actually received their last one-cost ?25). The gold logo version now retails at a staggering ?163 ea. I have no idea why the price has increased so dramatically, but can only assume they are coming to the end of the gold versions as well.

[rklumpp]

?163??
That's ridiculous! However, thanks for the information. Maybe they have one (gold logo) for ?25 for me as well. smile...

Thanks.

Remy

[Seer Taak]

Take a look on ebay from time to time. Montressuisse sells all sorts of watches, mostly NOS, and has occasionally put an NOS Omega TC crystal up at a buy it now price of ~$60.

[gjlelec]

i am awaiting information from omega regarding whether the crystals they have been supplying are old 70s stock or if they still manufacture/ get them manufactured on a small order basis.I would be surprised if they had kept enough stock to last 30 odd years after manufacturing of the TCs ceased. If i get a reply i will post it here

[DragonFly2]

I would be cheaper to have some crystals made and ensure continuity of supply.To do this you would need to know the frequency and loding capacitance of the origional.Then place an order with a manufactures agent.The downside is that the watch would have a non authentic crystal, the up side is that a finer frequency tollerance part can be made +/- 20 ppm crystals are now common place 30 years ago +/-100 ppm was more parr for the course for sub minature crystals.
Hope ths helps.

[DragonFly2]

There is of course one other slight difficulty, the package style of the origional crystal is now obsolete (might be available as a special).
So you might have to decide which of the modern packages would be the least difficult to 'retrofit'.

[gjlelec]

dragonfly2, do you know of any manufacturers that are willing and able to produce mineralite glass crystals in small quantities. If you could find a manufacturer you would still have to put the omega name and logo on the crystal. I am not aware how that process is achieved, i dont know if its painted or how its done but i assume there could be a legal argument about using the omega name and logo without the required permission. Anybody out there know how the logo and name are applied to the crystal ?

[DragonFly2]

There are several UK based manufacturers agents for crystals .
Speaking from experiance some are more cost effective than others.

Most sub-minature crystals (metal cased) have their case markings etched into the metal (usually the crystal resonant frequency)a process that you can also see on the backs of modern watches ,logos ,text etc.

The largest hurdle replacing an origional crysal from the 70's is that the size and style of the 70's metal can crystal has been obsolete for more than 20 years, making a copy of the logo and markings is the least of your problems.
Post a picture of your crystal, it would be interesting to see the packaging.

[gjlelec]

i think we're talking cross purposes here. I'm assuming the original question posed refers to the ruby red mineral glass timescreen with the omega name and logo on it not the oscillating crystal inside the watch. What were you refering to in the original thread Remy?

[DragonFly2]

H'mm, interesting.
Are we indeed seeking an electronic component for a malfunctioning module (quatz oscillator crystal), or a replacement watch casing crystal(saphire red crystal).

The word crystal means two different things to ourselves and a third thing to collectors of high quality antique wine glasses.

Anyway assuming the red option, I seem to remember that there was a post some months ago, where there was a contact mentioned who can manufacture a replacement crystals to order, on this very forum by someone who had the same problem. I sugest that the search option be tried with the word 'crystal' now we know what results to expect.

[DragonFly2]

Found it! The post was called 'Custom Crystals' may 23 2006, final reply by Allmighty Tallest and the web site of the contact is........

www.crystalfit.com

Looks like the answer to your problem.

[gjlelec]

i'll send Crystalfit an email and see what they say, hopefully it will produce a source for omega timescreens (crystals) . I have received a reply from Omega stating that their supply of timescreens is completely exhausted and they will not be remanufacturing them. Goldsmiths the Omega agent advised me (as previously mentioned) they are still available from Omega . Its on things like this Omega really let themselves down, i have been informed in the past that certain bracelet links are no longer available but when you order them anyway through the agent they still arrive. I suppose they are not that interested in supplying low value spares only new watches

[rklumpp]

Hi there,
I haven't thought that my request for an Omega crystal (yes, the red option is the correct one :D ) would cause so many answers.
Thank's guys!

In the meantime I have contacted Omega themselves, but got no response

So again thanks for all your input. Maybe crystalfit can help me out. Or I'll get lucky with ebay.

Regards

Remy

[gjlelec]

Hi Remy, i have had a reply from the very helpful Daniel at Crystalfit and basically they cannot help with coloured crystals. This leaves us with a major problem, there are certain members of this forum that can rebrush/ refurbish time computers to like new condition and others who are whizz kids on repairing defunct modules.These individuals are responsible for ensuring certain watches (of various makes, not just Omega)will be available to enjoy for decades to come, after all wouldn't you rather have a mint version of your favourite watch rather than a rough crappy looking one ? The sticking point on the whole refurbishment plan for TCs now becomes the crystal. If you can get every part of your watch looking A1 except the crystal, would you bother the crystal will always let it down. I can't believe that among nearly 400 hundred members of this forum, nobody knows where to get refurbished crystals or where to get Omega crystals remanufactured. Surely the whole point of a forum such as this to to communicate information to permit continued use of LED/LCD watches.Somebody out there has the answer. If we do not achieve a way forward with this problem, i think the next step should be to put a horses head into the bed of the chairman of the Swatch group, you know , that eccentric guy that wears about six watches on each arm ( his name escapes me) I have always had the feeling from past communications with Omega (when they bother to reply), that they dont really consider the time computers to be worthy of being included as watches at all and rather a trend that they were forced into in the 70s. After all this ranting me and my TC are going for a lie down

[retroleds]

The sticking point on the whole refurbishment plan for TCs now becomes the crystal. If you can get every part of your watch looking A1 except the crystal, would you bother the crystal will always let it down. I can't believe that among nearly 400 hundred members of this forum, nobody knows where to get refurbished crystals or where to get Omega crystals remanufactured.

Three problems really stop this from happening:(a) it would be a copyright infringement to "remanufacture" crystals without permission - Omega is still very much in business;(b)people would start bitching about whether the crystal was original or not...fueled by the BIGgest problem, which is admittedly a double-edged sword(c) - you would trash the value of every watch that still has it's original crystal....as you noted, a lot of value is tied up in the final piece. The techniques for remanufacturing the glass are not that arcane...I discussed some of them when MJ was wondering about marking his watch's crystal(since I have made dozens of stained glass pieces, utilizing etching,sandblasting, glass fusing and yes, gold foil application). IMO, there will be a shortage of working or fixable modules for every brand, long before we are at the point of no good cases to put them into. :(

[gjlelec]

I agree with little1up regarding copy infringement but i am talking about a few crystals for enthusiasts not mass production. Anyway, i consider Omega has thrown us to the dogs by stating they will not produce anymore spare crystals. They bang on about their museum in Bienne and then refuse to support the very heritage they are promoting. If they considered the Time Computer range to be a proper watch, they would have an example of their most famous version on display( 18k TC1) but they dont. Go to their website and search for caliber 1603,(the last version made) it states "not known".I would be interested to find out how the name and logo are applied to the mineralite glass and whether that process is easily reproduced, and more importantly, someone who can undertake the work, this would allow scratched crystals to be polished and new logo/ name applied. Maybe little1up could advise with his background in stained glass restoration

[retroleds]

The name and logo could be reproduced today for less than $1/piece once setup, and that glass can be gotten for pennies per piece. But it would trash the market by demishing rarity...which is the very lifeblood of any collectible market. Using the logic that a few should be available for collectors to finish off their pieces, is like saying someone should make an LED modules that can be retrofitted to some of the watches that are commonly dead without hope of repair, e.g. Synchronars. Ask the Synchronar collectors - do you want a new set of guts for your vintage timepiece AND for everyone else who owns a dead shell? And what would the realistic market value be afterwards, if such a gut were available?

This discussion firms up what I believe about any rare collectible type item: that those who have gained the experience to fix some of the dead ones should continue to do so, as well as possible; and, some should be happy to be collectors that DON'T do much repair.....it is the most efficient use of the parts on hand. If you endevour to become a "fixer", be honest with yourself - YOU TOO WILL KILL A FEW GOOD ONES, as you grope in the dark . Myself, I don't mind sharing the WORK and the knowledge, but I hate to encourage those who are only trying to save a few bucks when they should know they are not particularly "handy". Even though I have been tinkering with electronics since I was 5 years old, as my father taught me to fix anything that broke in the house(because we were poor as $hit), I am frequently stumped on these little babies. :?

[gjlelec]

Hi little1up, your reply is very interesting but you appear to contradict yourself,What good is a non working Synchronar Its a watch that cant carry out its primary function- to tell the time.If i owned a Synchronar that didnt work, i would either pay someone that could repair it and make it work or throw it away. Your argument about encouraging people who want to save a few bucks doesnt make sense to me. If i want to fit a new crystal to my stainless Omega, irrespective of whether i am prepared to pay ?60 or ?600 for the crystal, i cant get one, they're no longer made.Surely the whole idea is to keep as many working watches available to as many people who want to own one as possible. We're already in a market of diminishing product as the watches are no longer produced. Not to re- produce a part just protect the rarity value of the existing stock is abhorrent to me. We're on a worlwide forum, open to millions of people, yet we consist of only approx 400 members.What does that tell you? You have a very niche interest. Whilst LED watches might be of importance to you and me, the rest of the world couldn't give a monkeys. To me this hobby is about preserving the watches i like- whatever make they maybe, it certainly not about making money

Administrator's note: The "making new modules" topic has been split off from this Omega crystal thread.

[T-bird]

Hi Remy.

Maybe my answer comes late, but I'll write it anyway.
I understand the importance of originality in watches (as well as in any other collector's item) but speaking strictly for myself, I don't mind to change a crystal on one of MY watches, as long as it looks original.

There are many ways to approach the problem:

1) Buff out the scratches.
Despite what some say, it is definitely possible and quite easy to buff glass. You just need the right rubbing compound, which is cerium oxide. Any glass shop uses it to buff beveled glass, or to polish a side cut after straightening. You just need to find a "friendly enough" shop to give you some, since it is usually sold in large professional quantities you don't need. If you have the cerium powder, you'll mix it with water to have a paste. You can remove minor hairlines by buffing directly the glass, but you'll need to grind it down, to remove deeper scratches. To do so, find a marble or glass table surface (it is usually ground pretty flat) or equivalent, lay down a 400-grit wet sandpaper foil, add water and grind the glass surface until you see no more scratches. Needless to say, the glass must be out of the case. Then, switch to 600-grit and repeat, crossing the previous swirls. Then 800-grit, and cross again. End with 1000, and you'll do it much faster and better than starting with a fine sandpaper because you fear the scratches. Then, lay down a thick cotton towel (like kitchen towels), pour in some cerium powder, add water to make a mud-like paste and buff the glass in exactly the same way you sanded it. You can use some drill motor or rotary wheel, but it is by far easier and safer to work by hand over a surface. Twenty minutes and you'll get a perfect ground glass polished to mirror shine BUT the logo will be gone. More on that later.

2) Replace the glass.
It is not easy, but you can have a glass cut for your watch. You can even cut it yourself, but usually a jeweler has the tools to make it in minutes. A watch repair laboratory usually has a machine that contours old watch glasses and recuts new ones copying the exact shape, just like the machine that duplicates keys. It is economical and the lab won't ask a fortune. They can even bevel the glass sides, but I usually keep this work for me, since it is very easy (see point 1) and you can do exactly like you want to reproduce the original shape. Only problem here is that ruby red glass is not easily available. I don't know if anyone has it, I guess it's easy to reproduce, but in real world terms is much easier to buy a photographic red filter, like dark red 25 or even 29 (check Tiffen's website: www.tiffen.com) and have it cut to shape.
This glass is a very high qulity mineral glass (optical quality, for that matter, but you won't need it ), very scratch resistant and best of all, it comes in perfect 2mm thickness. If you buy a larger diameter filter, you can get 3 or 4 crystals out of it.
I know, I know. The red is not ruby red. But is a deep red to start with, and to obtain that great ruby hue you'll just need to use some glass transparent paint on its inside surface. This paint is available through many manufacturers, but one of the best I've tried is Marabu (you're German, here's their site: www.marabu.de). They make a dark ruby red color # 434 - Bordeaux. This color is wrong by itself, but combined with the red filter is a very very close match to original. The color is perfectly transparent, just like automotive candy colors, but can be baked and becomes hard as stone and lasts "forever". Of course you can't apply it with a brush, because it'll leave streaks. You'll need an airbrush or airgun, but the work will turn out p-e-r-f-e-c-t.

3) Replacing the logo.
Original logos were for their vast majority serigraphed on the glass. This process involves a silk frame in which a special gel is placed. Then, a transparency film with the logo (or any other image) is placed on the silk, and light is applied. The gel hardens, remaining soft where not reached by the light, under the logo. The frame is finally washed, and what you have is a serigraphy frame. Special thick inks are rolled over the frame over the glass, and ink penetrates through the small silk holes where the logo is, and reaches the glass. Then the glass is baked and the result is one of the most though finishes you can think of, impervious to solvents and most chemicals. This is how it was done in the 1st place.
You can duplicate that, and have a serigraphic frame made from a local graphic studio. You can also take the "cheater" way though, and have a small rubber stamp fabricated by a stamp shop that reproduces the logo. Using white or gold glass paint (again, Marabu makes non transparent paints which can be baked) you can reproduce a perfect match logo. This is not illegal as far as you use it for your watch - we're not talking business here, just an old watch glass repair.

While all of this stuff may sound very difficult to someone, I can say that it all depends on how much enjoyment you can have out of it. Think of it as a modeler's delight: Why spend countless hours to reproduce that small detail when you can go to a shop and buy it? Because YOU did it. Add to the picture that LED watch glasses are not easily available, and that all the process won't take (when every phase is put together) more than a hour or two, and this may start to sound reasonable.

At least to me. What? Time to call a psychiatrist?
Naa, LED watches are more affordable...

Al.