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Omega TC1 module issue

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primepulsar

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Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 15:34

Hello

I recently purchase a TC1. The module is original and is very clean. No signs of corrosion. When I put batteries in the module did not light up at all. I've been seeing some posts referring to a "module wash". Does it sound like my module would be a candidate for that? If so what are the steps for that process. Thanks!
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 15:47

If you can't spot any errors with a magnifying glass (hairline cracks, lose connections, corrosion, etc) then washing is a pretty simple sulution and always an option if you run out of other ideas.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 17:17

What are the steps for the module wash?
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 17:24

primepulsar wrote:What are the steps for the module wash?


+1. Asking the same in my post. Should be washed with vinegar: my concern is about how to proceed......wondering if just dip the full module in vinegar and then dry with a hair dryier or have to disassemble something. Wondering if any harm to leds when they get wet..... :scratch:
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 19:32

If you do a keyword search for 'vinegar' ( search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=vinegar&start=22 ) you will find lots of information on the subject, personally I only use it as a last resort when there is nothing else to loose - dropping the whole module into a vinegar bath followed by a bicarbonate of soda bath to neutralise followed by a bath in distilled water to wash, then allowing to dry thoroughly... .... ... there is no exact science with this method it is just a case of using your judgement - it has only ever worked for me on the odd occasion.

Before getting to the bath stage I would recommend cleaning the contacts with a fibre tipped pen - even when the traces and contacts look clean they can be contaminated with an invisible film.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 19:45

Thanx bucko. I did a search but didn't find any step by step guide. In my case it's only half digit (the first ONE at 10-11-12) and it happen that sometimes it does even work; this on/off behaviour seems to me like a "dirt" problem more than something really faulty that i believe would give as behaviour an always off set of leds. Opinions?
Cheers
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 19:47

Wow, a very general question!

There are so many things other than a wash. First as in the medical profession, do no harm an a vinegar wash can harm. Number two, the watch is over 45 years old and the history of repair is unknown. You never know what the previous owner did. I have seen these covered in WD40 and other products!

Are you familiar with a multi tester or a continuity tester?

All electronics out there were washed prior to sale. The term wash for me refers dipping a soft artist brush and in the solution then work it into the module and AT ALL TIMES, AVOIDING the LED block. Rinse the same way. Always avoid the LED block as contaminants can work there way into, under and on the LED lens which may leave a residue that cannot be removed. On some modules the LED is not sealed and wire bonds are exposed.

    1 wash with warm soapy water solution first to remove any oily contamination.
    2 Rinse with water.
    3 wash with white vinegar the same manner.
    4 rinse with water.
    5 wash with anhydrous alcohol. That is alcohol with a very low water content.
    6 rinse with water.
    7 air dry or dry with hairdryer on low.
    8 apply an electronic contact enhancer such as deoxit.

I use deoxit contact cleaner and enhancer. Apply sparingly with fine tipped paint brush to contacts and exposed electronics. Also at the main controlling IC BUT DO NOT TOUCH ANY WIRE BONDS if they are exposed!


A wash with vinegar is a last resort and typically works if there is a visible trace of corrosion from battery leakage. It can however remove the remnants of a circuit trace causing a failure. That is, under the corrosion precipitate (copper sulfphate) the trace may be connected by a partially remaining bit of trace which the vinegar removes causing a break in the circuit. Some battery corrosion is caused by out gassing of the batteries and results in corroded ICs internally. These modules look pristine but will never work. So do the wash last, do the next list first.

After a cursory scan; are the contacts clean, top and bottom. Does it look like the module has been interfered with? Does a good magnet illicit any response? Before removing the module, remove the case back.

    Clean the contacts,
    Magnifying glass, check with pictures on the web, are all components present.
    Any signs of previous attempts at repair, sloppy solder joints.
    Heat the module with hair dry until JUST hot to touch.
    Reinstall batteries.
    Try with good magnet.
    Did the heat bring it to life?
    If yes, did it stay functional?
    If yes, did it die when cooled?
    If no check:
    - magnetic read switch function. Lift the module to your ear, apply the magnet, did you here a faint click?
    - If you have continuity tester, check the continuity of the magnetic read switch with and without the magnet.
    - any obvious connections that appear to be broken.
    - quartz crystal, replace. Your decision here, do this before the wash or after, if a wash does not help.
    - consider new after market replacement if for personal use. If for resale, inform the buyer :-)

There are more sophisticated checks but they would rely on circuit design expertise and equipment. Try the above first. Of course if it is still dead, then a last ditch attempt with a vinegar soak.

Good luck!

Geoff

P.S. I see now that you have a semi response. Follow the above procedures. When the oscillator is bad, a few things can happen:

    1 the display does not work.
    2 the display comes on with a single digit that changes eveytime the batteries are removed and replaced. This simulates a timing signal.
    3 the time keeping functions are out to lunch, there is a display but extremely inaccurate.

All do these point to a bad quartz crystal.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 19:53

world-is-yours wrote:Hey, thanx for your input. Now the funny thing is that this morning when i checked the time all digits worked flawlessly each time i turned the leds on. Checked again some minutes ago and again the ONE had theproblem of lighting only half....... :-|
Hamilton module can be an option same as Pulsar for what i know: the problem is that neither are easy to find in working condition.?


I would not consider this module to be a good candidate for the vinegar bath at this stage (way to risky) it sounds like a flaky wire bond connection to me and if it is detached or partly detached bathing it in vinegar will not work, to repeat my previous post I would try fresh silver oxide batteries first. Was there any change in temperature between the two tests? A change in temperature can cause the metal bonds to contract/expand making or breaking the connection.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 20:02

I will have a look at batteries because it indeed looks like the easiest solution if it does work.
In this moment the watch os working nicely again and all leds are lighting on, no. temperature difference. Maybe the watch is slowly waking up after some months of sleep :-D
Indeed a strange behaviour: sometimes works sometimes has the issue.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 20:05

767Geoff wrote:Wow, a very general question!

There are so many things other than a wash. First as in the medical profession, do no harm an a vinegar wash can harm. Number two, the watch is over 45 years old and the history of repair is unknown. You never know what the previous owner did. I have seen these covered in WD40 and other products!

Are you familiar with a multi tester or a continuity tester?

All electronics out there were washed prior to sale. The term wash for me refers dipping a soft artist brush and in the solution then work it into the module and AT ALL TIMES, AVOIDING the LED block. Rinse the same way. Always avoid the LED block as contaminants can work there way into, under and on the LED lens which may leave a residue that cannot be removed. On some modules the LED is not sealed and wire bonds are exposed.

    1 wash with warm soapy water solution first to remove any oily contamination.
    2 Rinse with water.
    3 wash with white vinegar the same manner.
    4 rinse with water.
    5 wash with anhydrous alcohol. That is alcohol with a very low water content.
    6 rinse with water.
    7 air dry or dry with hairdryer on low.
    8 apply an electronic contact enhancer such as deoxit.

I use deoxit contact cleaner and enhancer. Apply sparingly with fine tipped paint brush to contacts and exposed electronics. Also at the main controlling IC BUT DO NOT TOUCH ANY WIRE BONDS if they are exposed!


A wash with vinegar is a last resort and typically works if there is a visible trace of corrosion from battery leakage. It can however remove the remnants of a circuit trace causing a failure. That is, under the corrosion precipitate (copper sulfphate) the trace may be connected by a partially remaining bit of trace which the vinegar removes causing a break in the circuit. Some battery corrosion is caused by out gassing of the batteries and results in corroded ICs internally. These modules look pristine but will never work. So do the wash last, do the next list first.

After a cursory scan; are the contacts clean, top and bottom. Does it look like the module has been interfered with? Does a good magnet illicit any response? Before removing the module, remove the case back.

    Clean the contacts,
    Magnifying glass, check with pictures on the web, are all components present.
    Any signs of previous attempts at repair, sloppy solder joints.
    Heat the module with hair dry until JUST hot to touch.
    Reinstall batteries.
    Try with good magnet.
    Did the heat bring it to life?
    If yes, did it stay functional?
    If yes, did it die when cooled?
    If no check:
    - magnetic read switch function. Lift the module to your ear, apply the magnet, did you here a faint click?
    - If you have continuity tester, check the continuity of the magnetic read switch with and without the magnet.
    - any obvious connections that appear to be broken.
    - quartz crystal, replace. Your decision here, do this before the wash or after, if a wash does not help.
    - consider new after market replacement if for personal use. If for resale, inform the buyer :-)

There are more sophisticated checks but they would rely on circuit design expertise and equipment. Try the above first. Of course if it is still dead, then a last ditch attempt with a vinegar soak.

Good luck!

Geoff

P.S. I see now that you have a semi response. Follow the above procedures. When the oscillator is bad, a few things can happen:

    1 the display does not work.
    2 the display comes on with a single digit that changes eveytime the batteries are removed and replaced. This simulates a timing signal.
    3 the time keeping functions are out to lunch, there is a display but extremely inaccurate.

All do these point to a bad quartz crystal.


Thanx very much, great guide. Yes, i will leave the vinegar thing as last option......not familiar with testers though....
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 20:18

Ah, it is working, then DON't do any washes.

I would use the deoxit contact enhancer after cleaning the contacts, top and bottom, but would leave it at that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-pk-combo-DeoxIT-D-Series-D100L-GOLD-G100L-Fader-100-solution-2-ml-tube-/361041351465?hash=item540fbdd329:g:CS4AAOSwGzlTxav~

The red one. This is a must for you restorers. I have let the red one seep into a calculator main IC one week later it was functional! May or may not have been the deoxit. Use this on my tube radio and transistor radio restorations. Apply to all plug in connections. Absolute wonder.

Geoff
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post08 Feb 2016, 20:23

Will replace batteries and buy the deoxid, and hopefully i will be done. Thanx! ;-)
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post09 Feb 2016, 04:20

767Geoff wrote:Wow, a very general question!

There are so many things other than a wash. First as in the medical profession, do no harm an a vinegar wash can harm. Number two, the watch is over 45 years old and the history of repair is unknown. You never know what the previous owner did. I have seen these covered in WD40 and other products!

Are you familiar with a multi tester or a continuity tester?

All electronics out there were washed prior to sale. The term wash for me refers dipping a soft artist brush and in the solution then work it into the module and AT ALL TIMES, AVOIDING the LED block. Rinse the same way. Always avoid the LED block as contaminants can work there way into, under and on the LED lens which may leave a residue that cannot be removed. On some modules the LED is not sealed and wire bonds are exposed.

    1 wash with warm soapy water solution first to remove any oily contamination.
    2 Rinse with water.
    3 wash with white vinegar the same manner.
    4 rinse with water.
    5 wash with anhydrous alcohol. That is alcohol with a very low water content.
    6 rinse with water.
    7 air dry or dry with hairdryer on low.
    8 apply an electronic contact enhancer such as deoxit.

I use deoxit contact cleaner and enhancer. Apply sparingly with fine tipped paint brush to contacts and exposed electronics. Also at the main controlling IC BUT DO NOT TOUCH ANY WIRE BONDS if they are exposed!


A wash with vinegar is a last resort and typically works if there is a visible trace of corrosion from battery leakage. It can however remove the remnants of a circuit trace causing a failure. That is, under the corrosion precipitate (copper sulfphate) the trace may be connected by a partially remaining bit of trace which the vinegar removes causing a break in the circuit. Some battery corrosion is caused by out gassing of the batteries and results in corroded ICs internally. These modules look pristine but will never work. So do the wash last, do the next list first.

After a cursory scan; are the contacts clean, top and bottom. Does it look like the module has been interfered with? Does a good magnet illicit any response? Before removing the module, remove the case back.

    Clean the contacts,
    Magnifying glass, check with pictures on the web, are all components present.
    Any signs of previous attempts at repair, sloppy solder joints.
    Heat the module with hair dry until JUST hot to touch.
    Reinstall batteries.
    Try with good magnet.
    Did the heat bring it to life?
    If yes, did it stay functional?
    If yes, did it die when cooled?
    If no check:
    - magnetic read switch function. Lift the module to your ear, apply the magnet, did you here a faint click?
    - If you have continuity tester, check the continuity of the magnetic read switch with and without the magnet.
    - any obvious connections that appear to be broken.
    - quartz crystal, replace. Your decision here, do this before the wash or after, if a wash does not help.
    - consider new after market replacement if for personal use. If for resale, inform the buyer :-)

There are more sophisticated checks but they would rely on circuit design expertise and equipment. Try the above first. Of course if it is still dead, then a last ditch attempt with a vinegar soak.

Good luck!

Geoff

P.S. I see now that you have a semi response. Follow the above procedures. When the oscillator is bad, a few things can happen:

    1 the display does not work.
    2 the display comes on with a single digit that changes eveytime the batteries are removed and replaced. This simulates a timing signal.
    3 the time keeping functions are out to lunch, there is a display but extremely inaccurate.

All do these point to a bad quartz crystal.



I tried heating the module but no luck. I also put it up to my ear and did hear a faint clicking sound when the magnet was applied. I'm slightly confused where you apply the detoxit. Everywhere but the LED lense? Thanks for your reply. It was very helpful!
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post09 Feb 2016, 04:48

I thought you got I working. If it is working don't do anything except add some deoxit (a pin head drop is all that is needed) to the contacts. Deoxit, not detox it :-D

world-is-yours wrote:I will have a look at batteries because it indeed looks like the easiest solution if it does work.
In this moment the watch os working nicely again and all leds are lighting on, no. temperature difference. Maybe the watch is slowly waking up after some months of sleep :-D
Indeed a strange behaviour: sometimes works sometimes has the issue.


introduce nothing to the LED block. If it is intermittent, a few things may be wrong. Impending oscillator failure, bad contacts, loose contacts with in the circuit. Really, it's like giving a disease diagnosis over the phone. Difficult at best.

Cheers, Geoff
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post09 Feb 2016, 05:41

No someone else jumped into the thread. His is working. Mine is not lol.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post09 Feb 2016, 10:09

:-D sorry primepulsar.
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post09 Feb 2016, 20:38

Hi Primepulsar!

Okay, so no life and the module is out,

So follow the list I have made for you. I had a pulsar, looked perfect, crystal was perfect but some caps has fallen off as the connection to the circuit board had rotted over time. There a many things that can go wrong with forty year old electronics suffering daily wear shocks, batteries left in are just one.

As someone sai many moons ago here, ALL electronics will fail given enough time.

Now, if you cannot resurrect it yet the case is perfect, two options, look for a functional one in a crappy case, they will sell for less. Or buy a replacement from Hanno at strikes and spares (this is his board):

http://www.strikesandspares.de/index.htm

Or

http://www.pulsarledtime.com or http://www.pulsarledtime.com/About-US.html

I have purchased modules from both and have had Hanno repair wire bonds in some pulsar calcs.

Geoff
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post10 Feb 2016, 01:24

What should I be putting the deoxit on?
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Re: Omega TC1 module issue

Post10 Feb 2016, 06:47

Before removing the module but after opening the case back:

Did you notice any evidence of battery leakage?

Did you clean the battery leakage from the battery contacts on the module and on the case back.

Once that is done apply the deoxit to the contacts in the module and on the case back.

Try the watch.

-----------------

Once you have removed the module because contact cleaning did nothing:

Did you notice any evidence of battery leakage?

Clean the leakage and module as described in the BIG previous post.

------------------

Once you have followed the procedures in the BIG post:

Apply deoxit to the contacts for the battery on module and case back. I do not know how sealed your module is so please take a picture front and back of the module. It is a waste of deoxit to apply it to a module with the black sealant paint still on it. If there are any exposed solder joints, apply it there.

If more surgery is required then a fibre glass pen is required. This can be used to expose traces and solder joints that would benefit from deoxit. Don't do this unless you know about wire bonds and etc.

Geoff

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