Time for some quick betting...

[your_man_in_Hamburg]

Yesterday, after seemingly eternal procrastination, preparations, etc, did I solder the replacement quarz unit (thanks Howard) into my Synchronar. After months in a very dark stainless steel lunch box, the batteries were flatter than a busted bicycle tyre in the Paris - Robaix race. The two hours of electrical light it got before bedtime had no realistic chance (I hope) of waking it up, and early this morning I went to work shortly after daybreak.

Now, I am still at work, but on my way home (via the grocery). What odds do you give me on the success of this repair? 7:1? 1:1000000? 1000000:1?

A full workday of light through a kitchen window facing west should have juiced it up enough to emit some signs of life when I pull the sliders this evening. If my repair tried to cure the wrong ailment, or, worse, if the repair killed the patient, I must come up with some new solution (or crush the goddamn thing in a wise, mafia-style).

In any case, stay tuned. I will report the outcome later this evening (central Europe).

p.s. It is not yet the final repair. The hole gapes, the grounding to the capsule has yet to be soldered, but I desperately wanted to see it stand up from the dead.

[Synchroserious]

If you continue to break the seal like you did when you made modifications where the band joins,it might just open up and then more will be known.I honestly believe yours has more bubbles than ANY I have ever seen and therfore formed and must have entered while you were testing to see at which pressure the batteries would give.

So if you are asking me,it is highly probable that new batteries would be in order along with the QC I sent.After a thourough cleaning inside and replacing these two parts I would almost bet it will come back.

[CompuChron]

I can't wait any longer, please tell us if it works!

[your_man_in_Hamburg]

Phew, repairing the watch is hard enough Howard, but keeping up with your strange ideas about what I have done to you, your father, and my watch is almost impossible.

If you continue to break the seal like you did when you made modifications where the band joins,

I admit that I had to scrape down the thickness of the ledge between the two "horns" at the back of the plastic shell, in order to make the band move freely, and that the knife thereby made scratches in the main body. These scratches were however superficial and did not bother me at all. Lexan is a very tough material, it will not crack because of superficial scractches. As for the joint between the upper and lower shell half, it showed no signs of breakage before I sent the watch back, no signs thereof when I got it back, and still no signs could be seen when I milled through that area yesterday.

it might just open up and then more will be known.I honestly believe yours has more bubbles than ANY I have ever seen

It managed to pass all the quality checks with them.

and therfore formed and must have entered while you were testing to see at which pressure the batteries would give.

If I understand you correctly, you want to tell me that since the watch has a record breaking number of bubbles, I must have caused when I, according to you, exercised destructive testing on my almost brand new watch. Well, even if we disregard the fact that the watch is filled with a 2-component rubber which is fully cured long before the watch is delivered, making it impossible to add new bubbles later on, and even if we disregard the fact that I would have to buy/build special equipment in order to produce the pressures necessary to bust the batteries, doesn't it still sound pretty far-fetched, even to you, that someone would buy a watch for several 100 EUR, wait for it over three years, only to spoil it with a destructive battery busting test as soon as he gets his hands on it? On top of that, invest another x hundred EUR in equipment to repair it again?

Apart from from these considerations, don't you think it is strange that managed to use the watch for almost a year after I, according to you, busted the batteries?

So if you are asking me,it is highly probable that new batteries would be in order along with the QC I sent.

Don't hold your breath Howard. Despite your impressive powers of observation and deduction, I think I will rely on my own facilities.

After a thourough cleaning inside and replacing these two parts I would almost bet it will come back.

Do you really think I would like to send it back, after all that happened? I almost lost it. I had to "negotiate" ad nauseum with you before it was released. It came back with deep poke marks from an overzealous user of a soldering pen, marks that I explicitly had asked you not to make. (Remember? I asked you to mark the points with a felt tipped pen on top of office tape stuck to the surface, but no, no, jab, jab, melt, melt was obviously more fun.) On top of that, all kinds of strange theories about what kinds of torture I have exposed the watch to.

Yes, it may be true that you helped your father repairing these watches for several years. Yes, it may be true you have inspected my watch through a stereo microscope. Still, you have an almost supernatural knack for mis-interpreting production artefacts as signs of malicious, or least mindboggling stupid, abuse.

I'd rather send the watch to my mother for a repair.

------------------------------------

Now that I am finished with you Howard, for this time at least, here comes a follow up on this thread for the rest of readers of this forum:

As I came home from work, there were no rubyred, happy digits greeting me as I actuated the sliders. Bummer. I have now dug up a downloaded instruction sheet that states the charging times for the watch when it is exposed to different sources of light.

They look delightfully long.

With some luck, it is still too early to count the watch out. After all, it has only received about 3h sunshine, with clouds, through a window pane, 10h of, eh, "cloudshine", and some 5h of electric light.

[your_man_in_Hamburg]

Do you really think I would like to send it back, after all that happened?

Hm, on second thought, I am almost certain Howard wanted to say that it would come back to life rather than back to RTC/CCC. Rats. Lucky thing I spotted this blamage first of all.

Well, if I need to strip off the rest of the back, swap some batteries (although I personally doubt it), it does not feel like much of an adventure, now that I have lost my synchronar-milling inhibitions.

[leddwatch]

Hey, have you tried putting 3volts from a battery pack across the +ve and -ve to the batteries? This will tell you if the oscillator repair has fixed the fault, if it fires up and yet still will not charge put your multimeter on voltage and connect across the batteries, is there a voltage there? If not put the watch under strong light and see if there is any voltage there then, there is alot that you can do to resurect a faulty Synchronar, they even can work very well with the cutom oscillators that we all fit in Pulsars nowadays (see previous threads). But back to square one - The most inportant thing to do is to get a 3volt source from a couple of batteries and try the watch on this, once you know all is well then theres lots and lots of fixes available, best luck!

[Synchroserious]

PHEW!! are you just getting back into season with this drama? I mean I do the impossible and send you back your watch with several free parts and try to help your lost cause and all you do is bypass my effort and post nonsense about your failure.Your the one who makes conclusions about the pressure the Synchronar can handle written by you!,not me. Well lets see, how did you come to these test conclusions? for which there is no reliable source mentioned in your so-called unbiased review.
Tap in points.

I PUT THE HOLES IN THERE PROPER PLACE,SO IT WOULD BE EASY FOR YOU TO TAP IN WITH 3 VOLTS.SORRY THERE IS NO WAY TO MARK THE MODULE WITH TAPE AND ARROWS.THERE ARE CONTACTS RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER AND ONE HAIR OFF THE TARGET RESULTS IN RUINING YOUR CIRCUIT,SOMETHING BELIEVE IT OR NOT I DID NOT WANT YOU TO DO.


Most people lay to rest any differences they may have had with this great invention and it,s creator.I think there will always be a crybaby out there that has nothing better to do but pout about their own selfish desire to be priority # 1.


PLEASE !!WHATEVER YOU DO DO NOT SEND THE WATCH BACK>I NEVER SUGGESTED Such a thing< not sure where you picked that up?

[retroleds]

Hey, have you tried putting 3volts from a battery pack across the +ve and -ve to the batteries? This will tell you if the oscillator repair has fixed the fault, if it fires up and yet still will not charge put your multimeter on voltage and connect across the batteries, is there a voltage there? If not put the watch under strong light and see if there is any voltage there then, there is alot that you can do to resurect a faulty Synchronar, they even can work very well with the cutom oscillators that we all fit in Pulsars nowadays (see previous threads). But back to square one - The most inportant thing to do is to get a 3volt source from a couple of batteries and try the watch on this, once you know all is well then theres lots and lots of fixes available, best luck!

Other than a very few odd units Howard has, the correct voltage for a Synchronar is 2.4 . The Varta batteries were designed for 1.2 volts, the solar panels consistently produce 2.4 volts.

[Synchroserious]

The solar cells produce more than 3 volts,although not really higher when connected to the battery,check your meter.The Synchronar will work at 3 volts and even higher, yes the factory rated norm for the batteries is 2.4 volt.At full charge they are at 2.7 and if you are running a basic test ,it is OK to use a 3 volt supply such as two AAA or AA batteries.


It is the units that fail at 2.3 Volts that I need a 3 volt battery for.

[paulmondays]

Wow

This has been a fascinating thread to follow. Dramatic, entertaining and occasionally amusing. I'm jealous because I wish I had more spare time to do some electronic experimentation. The synchronar looks like a great piece of electronic history, but seems to have one or two drawbacks. I'd love to see some pics of this watch when it finally starts working.

I expect you've been busy Howard but when you get a minute it would be great if you could get back to me and give me an estimate for a new, working synchronar. Is your next production run allocated out yet?

Regards

Paul 8)

[your_man_in_Hamburg]

To be perfectly honest, I haven't tried anything apart from simply replacing the quarz crystal and charge the batteries. For two simple reasons. First of all, Roger sounded pretty confident that the crystal was my problem when he diagnosed my watch over the phone. Secondly, I haven't had time to do anything else yet.

Now that the watch has been charging for 48 hours, albeit with some interruptions, it seems to be high time to think about a plan B. Personally, I find it somewhat disturbing that the watch had more life in it before I took out the (supposedly) broke quartz unit, replacing it with a fresh one. This either suggests that Roger's diagnosis was off target, or that I have busted something else during my efforts.

I have taken several pictures of this undertaking. I will publish some of them on my home page, once it starts working again. It is stored on a friend's computer. He is a gifted programmer, but has left his web server halfway through a repair.

I cannot promise that I will keep up steam until the watch works. The interesting challenge for me was to be able to get in there physically without crackning the display, the solar cell, or anything else. I haven't really thought about the risk that this undertaking could weer off into some search for an unknown fault in the circuitry.

I am perhaps exaggerating the horrors of such a hunt. After all, the intersection of the set of components that can (reasonably) go bust, the set of components that I can diagnose, and the set of components I can replace, isn't very large. There simply aren't very many components in there. Still, I'd rather dig into something like this than getting caught too long in my Synchronar:
http://www.instructables.com/id/EYNTHEN1WUEP287APH/

[Synchroserious]

YMIH. When you spoke with him on the phone he had no idea that you had put it through all your tests and wrote a review on it.He told me in October of 2003 when I visited him that it looked like you had abused the watch and that for obvious reasons was not going to honor the warranty.He also went on to say he would easily be able to sue you for slander,but that it was not worth his time.He guessed the QC was at fault when you told him it had 1 or 2 lines that would light up.But he did not know about the pressures you put it through and that it had other damages as a result.When things inside begin to short circuit this 1 or 2 segment display is a first sign and can mean A. the QC failed or B> the QC is failing because of water or other liquids that found there way inside or C> the battery was no longer reaching a high enough voltage for it to oscillate.Then again it could be a combination of A,B,C.BTW not all of the watches shipped at that time were completly curred.It can sometimes take a week or two after shipment.When there is no air inside to cure it,it takes longer.And no I don't find it odd at all that the battery and internals still performed for a year before failing as a result of the original damage.Hope you get this resolved one day,I have done all I can.



Paulmondays, I did notice my last mail never went out to you,it was sitting in the draft file and I guess I never sent it.I emailed you earlier ,sorry about the dely in my reply.

[your_man_in_Hamburg]

..., I have done all I can.

Don't stop now, Howard, your theories are interesting. Really.

---------------

Anyway. The watch has now had its fair share of light without waking up. I hope you guys did not lose too much on your bets.

[digibloke]

there is alot that you can do to resurect a faulty Synchronar, they even can work very well with the custom oscillators that we all fit in Pulsars nowadays (see previous threads).

Just out of curiosity what would the connections be for an oscillator chip? On a Pulsar there's one to where the quartz x-tal was soldered, one to the + input and one to the trimmer at the back. There's no trimmer on a synchronar so where would the third connection be? And would the other two be the same?

[leddwatch]

The negative only goes to the trimmer on a Pulsar after you have shorted it with a solder joint, all this connection is is a negative. On the Synchronar wire custom chip like this: use battery positive, battery negative and the oscillator output to either crystal legs..... works great for dead synchronars if they are dead because of oscillator faults.

[Synchroserious]

Phil,the Pulsars need that because there is no other solutuion according to what I read about it.The Synchronar does not have this aged circuit problem,I am sure you are aware of that.So why change the recipe with something less effecient if one can still purchase the Can type?


Digibloke, ALL MK I Synchronars had a trimmer and if anyone ever wondered about the location of the potting hole on the red bottoms being off center, it is because you could send them back to be adjusted.You can dig and pry the plug out.Then there is a pin head amount of silicone to remove so that you can adjust the trimmer and install a new plug.Who cares this was never done much really because the MK II came out in 1976 that completly eliminated the purpose of a trimmer and thus somewhere up in NY there is a box with thousands of them,never used.


And Phil,any updates on wether you will send back atleast some of the items that were sent to you that turned out to be stolen items taken by a previous "HELPER".I know who sent you the 25+ MK I and MK II modules,but i just want the drawings back.

[retroleds]

I'm puzzled as to how a watch wrapped in LExan, that could supposedly withstand 700 foot submirssion and/or 15 minutes in 175 degree farenheit water, completely filled with a highly water-resistant gel, could have water damage? I have a theory which has led Howard to classify me as an "anti-Synchronar terrorist". My theory: the water comes from within, not without. Electricity applied to two electrodes in a chemical solution(battery) generally splits off any available hydrogen...the hydrogen if not allowed to disipate recombines with any available oxygen to form...water. Black pus-like ooze directly adjacent to batteries sealed away in a non-breathing gel and container - is it really a freakin mystery?

[Synchroserious]

YMIH,

There is no such thing as " MK IV and a half" however you managed to persuade a fair amount of people that still ask me if I make the "MK IV and a Half.".It was simply a joke from RWR, you even state that in your article.I tryed to break some ice and told you I could jokingly say you may have stuck it in a microwave,hired a professional athelete to wing it 95 miles an hour at a rug surfaced wall.etc.These were all just meant in humour.


Do you still work at the HIGH PRESSURE Hydraulic fluid factory.Like you say in the review "look out for solvents"

Hydralic fluid and gasoline is not a good idea on any watch/clock,But certainly Synchronar killers. IMO


Why didn't you buy some of the other watches you practicly recomend in your Synchronar review.

[retroleds]

I'll agree with Howard there is little benefit to using an oscillator chip vs. a can type - they both have the same thing inside, a piece of synthetic quartz that causes current flowing thruthem to oscillate. The "chips" generally have a different capacitance than the "cans", so the trimmers need to come out of the circuit...unfortunately, oscillator chips age the same as the can types and you then have lost the ability to compensate via the trimmer. Slightly off thread: I applaud those who figured out that they could bypass the temperature compensating resistor on the Pulsars. Truly a benefit to the digital watch world.

[Synchroserious]

Ed ,I never labeled or classified you with that terroist theory.And this water one is ayet a new one.the other day you were telling me the gel and the batteries being potted was a NO-NO and the great tight seal a NO-NO and then you tell me RWR was warned not to do it and did it anyway,all sorts of crazy theories.Also I would wager that yes I can find a Synchronar that will keep time for a year in the dark.

There will always be value in opened Synchronars that have the gel taken out and a weaker seal.But calling the original design with strong seal and potting a NO-NO did upset me a tad Ed.

[leddwatch]

Sorry I didnt make my post clear, I would always use 32khz crystal if it repairs the fault, what I meant was that if the oscillator circuit is faulty then a custom oscillator will do the trick, for example I have had a couple of Synchronars where battery acid has damaged the circuit board on the oscillator side but he chip has survived along with the display drivers under the solar panel. With faults such as this you can use a custom oscillator, I didnt mean instead of a crystal, there would be no point.

And Phil,any updates on wether you will send back atleast some of the items that were sent to you that turned out to be stolen items taken by a previous "HELPER".I know who sent you the 25+ MK I and MK II modules,but i just want the drawings back.

Howard, greatest repect but I bought the stock from guy in Florida four years ago and I paid for it, there was complete boxed new synchronars (Mk1 and MkII) and a load of drawings and papers, there were no modules other than with complete watches.

Some of it I subsequently sold to other collectors, I also mentioned getting this stock to your Dad when I had a wonderful long chat with him on the phone a few years ago, there was never any mention of it being 'stolen' so please forget about it, I dont consider it was stolen and Im not going to have a row with you about it, I dont want any conflict.

[Synchroserious]

Phil I don't know how clear I can put the writing on the wall.


The whole clue " Guy in Florida" and as your last mail from a year ago you said you purchesed the box from a "service department in Florida"???


Well how on earth could that be? I was the only guy in Florida and there was NEVER a service departmkent in Florida.I know this because for years I offered to build them if I could do it down here.So I climbed tree,s for 15 years waiting to re-join and move back to NY whenever the time came and especialy the MK V project.Part of my visit there in 2003 was to get re-aquanted with everything and all his other latest assembly "do- it this way now".Conversations.



Anyway in 2002 RWR also offered me to get in a Uhaul with some "HELPER" digital watch stranger from a different part of Florida,that I was to train and work with on the MK V etc.
So since I had an 8 month year old daughter at the time and the MK V
chips were not completed,I declined to get in a Uhaul with this stranger,with or without my new little family.So just before the stranger left NY for good he stuffed (summer 2004) his trunk full of items he felt were easier to transport ,probably back to Florida.Perhaps it made him feel better that he left behind 1,000 cartoons on tape and most importantly bulk items that were to heavy for the trip like a 200LB $3,000 stereo system.Meanwhile he tells tales of needing to go for cancer treatment in all these different states and he would return,although he was dying of cancer and had horrible backaches etc.BS! ,The guy was a con-man and other friends of my father noticed his strange demeanor,one even witnessed him loading a medium sized box into his car,when spotted he nervously replied without even being asked "OH ROGER WAS LETTING ME TAKE SOME OF THESE WATCH THINGS HOME TO WORK ON"



Anyway Phil I would like some water under the bridge on this and don't want a conflict either.



My father would never sell the items you are talking about, but a good inside con-man would.


I caught his hand in the cookie jar, not yours Phil.If you had a conversation with RWR,which is possible.He would have imediatly laughed and said there is no Service department in Florida.BTW you didn,t talk to him on the phone at all in the months leading up to the dude leaving NY and you posting here at the forum about having all the items

There is some more but that is all for a Sunday session.