Help P2 playing up

[jagmad]

Hi all Question about my extremely clean inside P2 (Pic's below).
The thing is when I wear it and I get a bit hot and sticky it starts to go AWOL.
It starts with lighting up from left to right very quickly but only 1/2 brightness.
Then a few minutes later dead. Take it off, leave on poker table, play a few hands,
press the button and et voilà it's a few minutes past midnight.
Now I know what you're all thinking "it's the heat, needs new crystal) buuuuuuut,
I've left it on my radiator and other warm places and it's OK, never stops .
Could it be moisture/heat combo? Do I need a new O ring? Or something else....
Thanks in advance for any help on this, and the question of the module looking so clean.
What with me being a P2 novice and all. Pete

P2crop1.jpg

P2crop2.jpg

Done the best I could with the Pic's hope they're ok..

[bucko170]

.....I've left it on my radiator and other warm places and it's OK, never stops . Could it be moisture/heat combo?

......Or a contact issue caused by movement whilst on the wrist Which would explain why it's otherwise happy on a hot radiator.

The return to a few minutes past zero could be it loosing contact and resetting itself back to the default time setting with you checking a few minutes after the event hence the few minutes past midnight display. Do you use spacers for the batteries? I would clean the contacts with a bit of Isopropyl alcohol (even though they look clean they might still have a bit of a film over the top) and fit the batteries out with a couple of spacers to stop them moving around and then cross your fingers that it is that simple.

[abem]

It would be nice if it were just a case of a connection problem. I suspect that it's a problem with the oscillator, though - a precursor to / milder form of the dreaded single digit of death. I've seen this before where Time Computer modules seem to respond in this way to the combination of heat and humidity.

I have a Hamilton QED that works perfectly nearly all of the time except it doesn't care for exercise in hot, humid weather / sweaty wrists. In another case, I have a P4 Dress that's adverse to the same conditions. I still wear them and most of the time they are just fine but I have to be mindful of the weather - it's a good excuse to avoid exercise in warm weather (you can look at it as a feature rather than a bug).

I'm curious about the role of increased humidity in causing these problems. The problems are not caused by heat alone since the modules can be revived using the hair dryer trick. Perhaps there are traces of reside (salts?) from prior battery leakage that could cause regions of low resistance / shorting due to the added moisture? In that case, you might hope that a distilled water bath might help. I don't know - it's a guess.

-abe.

[jagmad]

Hi all

and fit the batteries out with a couple of spacers to stop them moving around and then cross your fingers that it is that simple.

Sorry about the rubbish Pic's can't seem to make them the right size to fit, but the first one shows the spacers
in and the second shows them out on the table to the right of the watch.
I'm gonna give the contacts a clean but before I do will the 70% stuff be ok or do I need to get some of the OMG +90% Grog .
Thanks for the input Mick

[jagmad]

It would be nice if it were just a case of a connection problem. I suspect that it's a problem with the oscillator, though - a precursor to / milder form of the dreaded single digit of death. I've seen this before where Time Computer modules seem to respond in this way to the combination of heat and humidity.

I have a Hamilton QED that works perfectly nearly all of the time except it doesn't care for exercise in hot, humid weather / sweaty wrists. In another case, I have a P4 Dress that's adverse to the same conditions. I still wear them and most of the time they are just fine but I have to be mindful of the weather - it's a good excuse to avoid exercise in warm weather (you can look at it as a feature rather than a bug).

I'm curious about the role of increased humidity in causing these problems. The problems are not caused by heat alone since the modules can be revived using the hair dryer trick. Perhaps there are traces of reside (salts?) from prior battery leakage that could cause regions of low resistance / shorting due to the added moisture? In that case, you might hope that a distilled water bath might help. I don't know - it's a guess.

-abe.

Hi abem thanks for the reply. Ok so what your saying is compete in the heptathlon orrrr, sit on the couch and wear the P2.
Where's the couch ...

curious about the role of increased humidity in causing these problems

.
I'm sure we're not the only ones??
As for the bath I thought that was a last resort?? Is it safe??
Has anyone tried giving one a bed bath using say, Q-tips or is that a NO NO
Thanks again Guys Pete

[jagmad]

Hi guys quick update popped in new set of renata's kept time all week. Then another hot and sticky session of poker at weekend.
All working fine until I noticed how wet my wrist was under the watch around 7.45 pm not working again, so I loosened strap and
let it dry off/ cool down.This time I pushed the button about every 2-3 mins when it came back to life it read 7.15.
The time was actually 8.10. So all it had done this time was gone to sleep for about 55 mins?
So do I give it a bath? Do I need the full strength alcohol? or am I best to just use distilled water first
Please I don't want my P2 to die

Thanks for any help in advance all Pete

[abem]

Pete,

Rats. Sorry to hear that. With a module like this, you can go days or even weeks without problems and then just as you've decided that maybe the gremlins have decided to move on, they're back.

One other thing that you might want to think about - for modules with flaky oscillators, in most cases you can fix the problem once and for all by replacing the quartz crystal with an oscillator chip. The chips are inexpensive and if you don't mind tinkering with a soldering iron, replacing the crystal with a chip should be doable by mere mortals. The links below have more info:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3956
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3918
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3918&p=40945

-abe.

[Andy_from_Perth]

why not get a new Strikes & Spares module, then your problems will be over?

[jagmad]

Thanks Guys for the replies.
I would like to keep it original if poss. So should I try the distilled water bath first?
And if that don't work if I go on to alcohol does it need to be more than 70% ?
Please help me as I only have 70% at the moment
Thanks in advance Pete

[Andy_from_Perth]

well if its the difference between having a working, fully reliable P2 you can trust & not, I know what I would do (& did).

besides, you can keep your original module to be repaired (if possible), or for posterity.

I just know how, peeved off* i was with my first led watch, when that module looped out - and how happy i was when i got it back from Hanno working perfectly!

good luck with it, hopefully it will be something easy/simple.





*aussie slang for very annoyed

[clockace]

last month my p2 also went wild. i tried changing the qc after a conversation with jeff thomas [wish he was still on the forum] but that didn't work. earlier this week i hooked up to my battery pack and it started multiplexing through all the digits. one digit stayed bright but the others were dim. while it was doing this i was pressing on all the resistors/transistors/light sensor to try to see if there was a bad connection. when i pressed on the trimmer[the small round one-not the tubular]it stopped multiplexing and all the digits lit up properly. i checked to see if the trimmer was loose but it was not. so i thought there may be something inside causing it to malfunction. i used my infamous vinegar/water/alcohol bath and while i had it submerged in the vinegar i used a small screwdriver to turn the trimmer around several rotations back and forth. rinsed and dried, reassembled and hooked to battery pack. all is well. back into the case with new cells and all is well yet today. any thoughts on what the problem may have been in the trimmer? peter

[jagmad]

last month my p2 also went wild. i tried changing the qc after a conversation with jeff thomas [wish he was still on the forum] but that didn't work. earlier this week i hooked up to my battery pack and it started multiplexing through all the digits. one digit stayed bright but the others were dim. while it was doing this i was pressing on all the resistors/transistors/light sensor to try to see if there was a bad connection. when i pressed on the trimmer[the small round one-not the tubular]it stopped multiplexing and all the digits lit up properly. i checked to see if the trimmer was loose but it was not. so i thought there may be something inside causing it to malfunction. i used my infamous vinegar/water/alcohol bath and while i had it submerged in the vinegar i used a small screwdriver to turn the trimmer around several rotations back and forth. rinsed and dried, reassembled and hooked to battery pack. all is well. back into the case with new cells and all is well yet today. any thoughts on what the problem may have been in the trimmer? peter

Hi thanks for that, my late father always said with anything like this check things that can be changed first, ( switch and plug connections/variable resistors etc)
He used to swear by a product called electro lube. It used to come in a little pen like tube and when you took the green top off, a thin sectional clear pipe used to pull out
with it for dispensing tiny amounts of it where you needed it. Oh my aching heart I do miss my father.
Anyway Peter your famous vinegar/water alcohol bath..How long for. In what order and does the % alcohol matter? Is 99% the only one to use? Or is 70% ok?

Many thanks Pete
PS. This ones for my dad he would have loved this.

[clockace]

i use household vinegar. immersed for probably less than 1 minute and i also use a soft brush to wash it. actually the brush is a womans makeup brush. rinse under tap water to get rid of the vinegar for a minute or so. then in the alcohol to absorb the water for maybe 30-45 secs and then blow off with a hand held bulb type blower. then on a desk lamp shade to warm and thoroughly dry. if you are trying this on your p2 don't forget to turn the trimmer a few times while in the vinegar. no guarantee for success, but it worked on mine. also the alcohol was bought in the hardware store in the dept where they have paints and paint thinner products. i don't have the can with me right now but i think it is isopropyl 90+%. hope this helps. peter

[jagmad]

Hi Thanks for that I will give it a go and let you know how I get on.
Think I will use distilled vinegar and water. Also you can get 90% alcohol in a hardware store?..
Over here we have to sign for it at the chemist counter, I think
I've spotted a seller on ebay selling 90% but not sure I trust it, I spoke to my local chemist
and he doesn't even stock it. He can get it but at a price.
I remember my late brother wanting to buy neat alcohol in the 70s to clean his very expensive
stylus, and he had to sign for that at Boots the chemist. they said it was in case he was using it to kill someone
Thanks again and I promise I will get around to posting some pics guys, I'm just in the middle of upgrading my
laptop and home/business computer system. so all my pics music etc will be on a 2 TB memory linked to my wifi .
Work has been an absolute bitch this year, paddling like fuck to stand still Thanks a bunch Mr Brown
Anyway we're off to lancaster with 2 of the kids and 3 of the grand kids for 5 days on sunday so it's not all bad..
Cheers again Guys Pete

[bucko170]

Isopropyl alcohol - rubbing alcohol, loads on ebay for not much money or amazon if you prefer.

Not sure that the alcohol % is that critical so long as it evaporates and takes the moisture away with it.

Maybe you could nip into the local hospital and pinch some of their hand cleanser, that has a high alcohol content - the alkies love it apparently

[jagmad]

Hi Mick Funny as f*^k Well the government over here has always been good at drip feeding the addicts.
Hey If we explained our addiction to digital watches do you think they might help us out

Thanks for the info although I have asked this question a few times before and never had a definitive answer.
I have a bottle of 70% hidden away somewhere Had to hide it away from the Mrs when I'm busy with my watches..
Cheers again Mick Keep up the good work . Pete

[clockace]

I bought it at an Ace hdwe store here in Scottsdale. 1qt(approx 1 liter)can. It's called denatured alcohol.cost @$10US. Used in alcohol stoves,cleaning glass,etc. I think it will kill you if you drink it. Peter

[jagmad]

I bought it at an Ace hdwe store here in Scottsdale. 1qt(approx 1 liter)can. It's called denatured alcohol.cost @$10US. Used in alcohol stoves,cleaning glass,etc. I think it will kill you if you drink it. Peter

Yep that's what I said diddle I .
Trust me that wouldn't stop some of the more hardcore giving it a go.
Little bit of street talk below.
"Hey Drew why do you get up out of your cardboard and newspaper bed so early?"
" Billy..... Why do you think there's no hand sanitizer left when you get to the hospital?"

Just found this on ebay and it got me thinking.. Looks like the alcohol % is important!
This guys watch must be full of whiskey or something.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Texas-I ... 4175c41346
Gotta go and catch some,, C Ya

[bucko170]

....Just found this on ebay and it got me thinking.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Texas-I ... 4175c41346
Looks like the alcohol % is important!

[azimuth_pl]

Interesting to learn how different countries apply alcohol restrictions. If I'm not mistaken in Sweden it's prohibited to buy or even own 90%+ alcohol...while we drink it pure in Eastern Europe ;)
Either way...good to hear that the vinegar, water, alcohol bath serves it's purpose with good results.
A big thumb up to my local friend Witek, an electronics guru, for his simple yet shocking ideas. I remember that I got a few nasty PM's when I shared this solution on the forum some years back. People change I guess :)
For the non-believers and the curious on what vinegar does...well, it's simple mild acid and you easily use lemon juice if nothing else is available, even ketchup would help :)
On the other hand battery acid applied to copper traces and other parts and left to rot for 30 years in result produce alkali residues which usually have the form of green/blue spots on the modules. Even if unvisible they are usually there from mild battery leakages resulting in fumes and transparent acid residues. They are our invisible nightmare that in many cases conduct electricity and create shorts when we don't expect them.
Now...if you have been carefully listening at school in chemistry lessons you would remember that you can fight (neutralize) acid with alkali and viceversa and the end result is....salt.
So...the vinegar removes battery residues, then the water bath removes the salt although there is no harm and then alcohol removes water. No magic, pure chemistry :)
In reference to the trimmer mentioned above...it must have had a build-up of residues in between the conductive layers which where removed by vinegar acid. Turning the trimmer a few times is a very good idea to help remove the residues from the entire surface of the trimmer.

[cobra007]

I am not really surprised because all the watch electronics are very low power and very high impedance work. A little bit of moisture (especially salted moisture from sweat) can totally mess with the electronic circuits. I had a similar problem with my prototype nixie watch. That one had small buttons and placed on the side of the watch. As I use high impedance buttons (tip-touch) the watch would go all funny when my arm got sweaty. I then made the buttons larger so that I could reduce the impedance and also placed them on the top to reduce the chance that they would come into contact with sweat vapor. That made a mayor difference. I think that if you search for leaks around the buttons and o-ring and correct them, your watch will work just fine even in sweaty conditions.

Michel

[clockace]

an update to my p2. the problem was not totally resolved. it still was acting up, multiplexing after a week or so. i changed the qc[i wanted to do that anyway because i had used an old synchronar qc and it was running too slow]out with a small seiko qc. timing is now ok but the display would go to secs and stay there. i discovered that the display button was stuck almost all the way in. i used Ronsonal lighter fluid to clean it until it would have some travel when pushed. then i used my ultrasonic cleaner, immersing the button side of the case and working the button in and out for a few secs. dried it out, warmed it up on a lamp to make sure it was dry and reinstalled the mod. after a few days[hot, humid]it proceded to multiplex. i opened it up and there was persperation on the module. dried it out, used silicon grease on the gasket and tightened it down good. so far all is well. i think Jagmad said his began acting up on a hot humid day/night. perhaps this was the problem all along as i have had this p2 for 3-4 yrs and it has been working fine until a few month ago. peter