Uncommon Executive variation

[bruce wegmann]

I have just obtained an example of an Executive, in stainless, that is significantly different in shape. The face is rounder, overall, and noticibly wider and taller [the width of metal around the crystal is greater]. From the side, it is rounder in contour, and thinner. I'd been hearing about this for a long time, but until today, I had never seen one. The caseback is quite different as well, with TIME COMPUTER, INC STAINLESS STEEL in taller letters around the rim of the back, and a 900XXX block serial number. Perhaps significantly, there is no five-pointed star logo present to indicate it was manufactured by the Star Watch Case Co. [nor does it say "Swiss Case", either]. It has the HR and MIN depressions that indicate it was originally a magnet-set watch [the lettering in them is also slightly taller and more closely-spaced than on Star cases]. Any of you guys seen this before [or have one?]. Do these exist in goldfilled also? Serial numbers? My thanks to Simon Alexander for the pics that alerted me to this. I will try to take some pics and post them.

[Greg Ratcliff]

Bruce, That could have been a test case that someone got hold of and made into a working watch. When my dad took over Pulsar Repair Service I found a box of test cases. Most of them were made out of brass though. There were some really ugly cases that didn't make the cut. I would have to see a picture of what you have to know for sure. I'm sure Simon probably talked to my dad about it. Greg R.

[bruce wegmann]

This one is not brass [plated or otherwise], but solid stainless steel, similar in most respects [including the interior construction of the button recesses], to the usual production cases. The bracelet is a standard solid-link one. Simon tells me he has one, and knows of one or two others; all are stainless.

[embelton]

Bruce:for the love of god...post some pics! :wink:

[embelton]

Heres Bruce´s Executives:



Im just testing another pic-hostingplace here:
[Site admin. interjects here - Embleton, we are trying to avoid having people scroll sideways.
If you guys feel the thumbnail boxes from Imageshack should be bigger,
let me know. Picture removed due to excess size - no offense intended here.

[embelton]

Thats OK with me :D

[azimuth_pl]

We're talking about the same type of cases.
I have two of these for years but wasn't much surprised with their untypical look knowing that TC had many suppliers in peek seasons.
I only doubted is was original because the finish was not quite TC quality.
So if they are considered test cases I might consider selling if somebody is interested ;) Crystals are later inserts and would not be included.

I don't have a typical P4 Exec at hand right now to show you a direct comparison but they are different.
Notice that one of them has an unfinished backside almost straight from the mold.
Both have a different finish on the sides - one appears to have been sandblasted instead of brushed.
The cuts on these are not perfect so perhaps that makes them unusual and collectible (?).

[retroleds]

Bruce: I see the difference in the cases, but I'm also seeing that one is an auto command case, the other is an early magnet set Executive case, based on the difference in the lug hole for the case back. Different time period in the manufacturing cycle, slight changes to the specs(since they have different strength magnets in the "buttons")....should we expect every piece to be identical? :?

[bruce wegmann]

The exact origin of these is still unclear. My pics show a standard case on the left for comparison. I hoped this would make the differences in shape and contour more clear. Both cases will hold either an Auto-Set or magnet-set module; the use of the threaded brass inserts for the module screws is also unusual. The standard caseback is shown for comparison purposes also. Note the conspicuous ABSENCE of the Star Watch Case Co.'s five-pointed star logo, and the different style of the HR and MIN markings [certainly suggests another manufacturer, and the serial numbers indicate thousands were made; I'd like to see another caseback for comparison...my guess is they're all off the same stamping die]. It's been privately suggested to me these might be Swiss-made cases, but I'm sure, if that were true, they would be so marked [and aren't, so I discount that possibility]. No doubt they are true Time Computer products, though. And thanks to Embelton for his capable handling of the pictures; I hope they answer more questions than they raise.

[bruce wegmann]

The mystery of the origin of these cases has been solved. According to Time Computer records, these were made by Ham-Tech, a U.S. case manufacturer, with an assigned serial number range of 900,000 to 950,000. One of these watches is clearly seen in the Aug.1975 edition of the Pulsar Instructions book on page 12 [the distinctive circular brushing is also unmistakeable], and again on page 9 demonstrating the Auto-Command feature. If you have a good copy, the images are good enough to actually read the serial number of the case...900007 [I have number 900059]. So, these were not trial or prototypes...they were production watches.

[azimuth_pl]

The serial number says it all but the poor finish would rather prove that these cases are factory rejects. Just a thought.

PS.
EPSA as for E.Piquerez SA is/was a respected case manufacturer in those days.
Do you recall Optel watches often mistakenly sold as EPSA Optel :)
They made several cases for Pulsar (those marked Swiss case) and for other companies including IWC. Their best case was the superwaterproof "Super Compressor" that could withstand 666 feet.

[bruce wegmann]

Rejection for cosmetic defects would typically be done BEFORE going to be serial-numbered [that would normally be the last, or next-to-last, operation before final finishing and assembly]. Time Computer DID accept them and send them out as finished watches. If you have a copy of that instruction manual...the pic in the lower left that shows the serial number also clearly shows that odd "orange-peel" texture on the steel [I'm guessing it was an artifact of the particular casting process Ham-Tech was using], so again, Time Computer seems to have been completely comfortable with the appearance of the case. In any event, a minor mystery, finally solved. A tinier, sub-mystery, is why Ham-Tech, unlike Star, did not put any identifying mark on their cases...of course, the casebacks are unique to them, so that may have been considered sufficient.

Note; edits on this and previous post were to substitute "Ham-Tech" for Piquerez [a Swiss case-maker]. Ervin Piquerez DID make cases for the Classic and Big Time, but the "roundface" Executives were domestically produced. Sorry for the mix-up.

[clockace]

not to confuse things, but the date/ command i just picked up at the nawcc show has a back on it marked "swiss made" inside the back. the serial on the back is 514275. if there were markings for the hr/min indents they are gone now. peter

[bruce wegmann]

This is another case also made by Piquerez, with assigned serial number range from 500,000 to 530,000. The HR and MIN markings were printed on with ink, rather than being stamped in. A few uses of the setting magnet and the ink was gone; I have a couple that have partial markings...my guess is VERY few of these have intact lettering now. Seems like a bit of lapse in quality for a Swiss manufacturer; at least the P4s have the markings properly stamped into the caseback [Big Time cases went from 550,00 to 570,000]. Auto-Set Swiss casebacks [without magnet recesses] for the Big Time and Classic also exist.

[azimuth_pl]

note that casebacks with serial numbers must not always be original (matching the case) as nobody knows who and when played with them in the last decades.
some EPSA cases (not casebacks) also have markings on the inside - looks like a cartoon figure - round head and bust and a P next to it.
most of my P3 cases have this logo.

[abem]

You guys have probably already noticed this, but there is another of those oddball elliptical case P4 Execs currently on eBay (item #390221612142):
http://cgi.ebay.com/PULSAR-LED-WATCH-ST ... 5adb05446e

Note that there is also another P4 oddity from the same seller that I thought someone would have brought up by now (maybe you're all quietly stalking it )- a TOUCH COMMAND P4 exec (item #300449820156). Really. Check it out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PULSAR-LED-GF-UNSUA ... 45f4346dfc

Any idea what this is about? Anyone have one?

I have to admit, the touch command P4 with its round buttons doesn't quite hit the mark aesthetically. It shows how perfectly balanced the exec design is that even minor variations in the design disrupt its balance.

-abe.

[azimuth_pl]

when the auction started I notified Dennis about this P4 Touch Command oddity as it's not even mentioned on oldpulsars. he hasn't replied yet.

as for eliptical cases this has now been confirmed as a standard variation between Star (US) and Epsa (Swiss) cases.
the biggest difference is clearly visible on P3 cases with the Star models having sharper angles and being made to a higher finish.
Epsa cases appeared approx. 1975 either to improve supply due to rising market demand... or (what is also possible) to cut costs on the declining LED market. I'm no expert in such statistical details.

[charger105]

Note that there is also another P4 oddity from the same seller that I thought someone would have brought up by now (maybe you're all quietly stalking it )

I think you've hit the nail on the head Abe. Anyone who draws attention to something they hope to "win" on Ebay would have to have rocks in their head !

I generally don't like to mention a current auction, although sometimes I can't resist ! This looks very interesting. I've never seen or heard of one before. Hopefully a full public discussion can occur after the auction.

Rgds,
Andrew.

[bruce wegmann]

There are a lot of models that aren't on the 1208 site. The 18K Execs, and the 18K Ladies models are still absent, even though they've been known for years [and until one showed up, the 3250 was missing, too]. I'm going to hazard a guess that this isn't a prototype [except for the Touch-Command feature, all other elements...the case, back, crystal, and strap are all totally standard], but is, in fact, the legendary P5 that is mentioned, though not pictured, there. The case shows no trace of being re-worked or altered in any way, and since it's a goldfilled case, any changes made would clearly show, so this one left the factory just as we see it. I think a perfect parallel can be drawn between the standard and T-C Executive, and the standard and
T-C Dress models. Now, this may be as wrong an estimate as mortal wit could invent, but I'm willing to go out on a limb, and think it's a reasonable guess, based on what we know exists.

[azimuth_pl]

I fully agree that the case is not a modification but the module shows lot of work.
it's not a 501 Touch Command module as seen in the late Dress edition and the Sport so I wonder if the button contacts on the module have been reworked.
the module is a standard 402 with probably dead electronics that have been repaired by adding a working circuit board from another 402 module. it's the most simple job one can imagine on a P4 but it doesn't look neat.

[bruce wegmann]

Well, the pics were clear enough to show the guts were a bunch of wreckage, but I was bidding on the case, anyway, and I have spare modules for the T-C models, so, no matter what, I'm going to get this baby working. If there's another one of these out there, please, let's hear about it! I can't help wondering what unlisted model number this is...? BTW, I don't sell my spares...all inquiries should be directed to Greg Ratcliff; he is THE source for such things.

[azimuth_pl]

that would mean that you are the lucky bidder :)
when convenient please show some pics of the inside... unless there is nothing new to experience.