Bogus Items to avoid.

[retroleds]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BULOVA-DRIVER-N6-ALL-NOS-ALL-BOXES-ALL-TAGS-LED-WATCH_W0QQitemZ130219232147QQihZ003QQcategoryZ31387QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Obviously an "assembled" piece - we have a 3 part display, one button module, in a two button case?!! If you get your hands on a "real deal" N7 of that model, it will have a SOLID stanless case, unlike the flash chromed cases of the earlier years, such as this one. Time for another BeeGee's song? " I Started a Joke"

http://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-LCD-spaceman-watch-limit-international-1970-NOS_W0QQitemZ270232037628QQihZ017QQcategoryZ31387QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Contains a Chinese module of recent manufacture? - including an internal beeper for the alarm, instead of the authentic/vintage method of either a sltted case back or holes somewhere else to let the sound out.. Put it this way - the module says on it 2006. Crudely machined case(internaly) of butter soft stainless steel, left button activates setting procedure(you would need to get out an ink pen to check the date, since it's command button is lined up with setting dimple on right). An unmarked stainless band and clasp, mis-sized button holes that were filled with brass bushings on the inside and a "modern process" etched caseback round out this 'piece'. Swiss craftsmanship - I think NOT!

I know this always sucks....but I remain committed to the idea that one of the biggest benefits of honest collectors coming together in places like this is to share information like this, before too many people have taken the financial plunge. It's like listening to the traffic report before turning onto the highway.

[Lillegutt]

Thanks!! On behalf of all of us bewildered newbies...

Actually, the Bulova was one of my watched items....


JHH

[bucko170]

Thanks for posting this thread, I'm a relative newcomer on the LED scene and sometimes find it difficult to distinguish between whats genuine and whats fake - especially when buying from ebay. I have some watches I have brought myself which I am not 100% sure are genuine, doesn't neccessary put me off buying a watch if it's not 100% genuine as I tend to buy based on the look of the watch, but I would prefer to know what I am buying because genuine pieces tend to carry a premium price and nobody likes to get ripped off when they have paid for a 'genuine' watch only to later discover it's a fake. I know many different LED watch companies used the same modules (e.g. Hughes) so differentiating between fake and genuine is not always straight forward. Would you consider ebay to be generally ok for an amateur watch enthusiast to buy from or do you think there are to many unscrupulous sellers using ebay to off load fake watches on unsuspecting buyers? What percentage of vintage watches sold on ebay would you consider to be fakes?
Keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aladdin_sane]

Thanks!! On behalf of all of us bewildered newbies...

Actually, the Bulova was one of my watched items....


JHH

yeah I was watching this one too not because I wanted it but I like to study what's out there.

This seller has appeared to have had some very good watches for sale but now I'm wondering what's beneath the shiny NOS cases.

[retroleds]

Just my $.02(since I have gone over my weekly quota of posts and replies).
From what we have seen, fakes are pretty much limited to two areas:
1. Parts or watches of recent construction, being sold as NOS(the Great Glass fiasco of 2007, the LCDs I brought to our members attention today).
2. Doctored up watches - that is, hybrids where it is concealed. Now, I recenly showed a Big Block I constructed for my own pleasure, which has a hughes modules like the original, just of a slightly different model which had different features. I think THAT hybrid is a solid piece, but I would actually want MORE for it than for a factory original, on the theory that it is a high quality "After factory" customization, using parts from the original manufacturer, albiet using the brains from a later, fuller featured model. It's a fine line - some purists think a Pulsar is desicrated by putting in a new oscillator crystal. Myself, I figure it was a product(the quartz oscillator) that was problematic, with fairly poor consistency, so replacing it with a new one is a major improvement. Like new spark plugs in an old car, a new hard drive in your old computer.

I guess it comes down to disclosure of the non-original aspects. The outright fake parts and watches are obviously fuled by greed and a lack of respect for the tenuous balance any collecting market must maintain.

Someone on another forum remarked that I am "an asshole, but apparently an honest one". I can live with that.

We have some great ebayers that don't play around - my short list would include LipsonRd, 1tuna, Majestyk, Watchismo, Joeywaycool. It's a tough market, but apparently by working it hard and carefully, it still is profitable for the honest and industrious.

[LEDluvr]

I wasn't watching either of these auctions but the heads-up is still greatly appreciated! When a more experienced and learned enthusiast provides these warnings it helps educate us all to spot the fakes. Many thanks Ed!
IMHO this is part of what makes this community beneficial for all of us.

[charger105]

Yeah, good one Ed.
I had been considering one of these spaceman watches for a while. I think I remember you posting a while ago saying the buttons were in the wrong holes, and you had to swap them around or something too ?
It's a groovy looking watch, but i'm certainly not interested in it now.

Rgds.

[retroleds]

Yeah, good one Ed.
I had been considering one of these spaceman watches for a while. I think I remember you posting a while ago saying the buttons were in the wrong holes, and you had to swap them around or something too ?
It's a groovy looking watch, but i'm certainly not interested in it now.

Rgds.

I did...I considered reveaing what I had found at that time but sometimes it just seems pointless during the dreary days of winter. Guess I was hoping someone else would discover the glaring issues with that piece and save me from pissing off the seller, whom I had generally had good business dealings with.

Swapping the buttons isn't the answer on that watch, as it ruins the look of the watch. But how do you deal with a piece that every time you touch the lower left button you are in setting mode, and you have to press the setting dimple to get the date, seconds or see if the alarm is set?

I've put the two I have aside until such time as I have vintage modules that have the correct button pattern, at which time I will press out the buttons, redrill and ream(going to have to grind down a ream to a custom f'n size) the button holes and install brand new button "Mido" assemblies and sell them with full disclosure of their murky past....maybe keeping one for myself since I will have lost my arse on the deal anyway. I got one marked "Catena" and one marked "Limited" - identical inside. I have a truely vintage Catena and the differences are more angering everytime I look at these p.o.s. things.

[retroleds]

I see "beegee" has put the three part module into the right case, so his piece is now "legitimate".

[rewolf]

I see "beegee" has put the three part module into the right case, so his piece is now "legitimate".

And ended the original listing: "The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing". Seems he's reading this thread

[rewolf]

..... I got one marked "Catena" and one marked "Limited" - identical inside. I have a truely vintage Catena and the differences are more angering everytime I look at these p.o.s. things.

So neither the case not the modules are original? I had noticed the LCD looks different, but thought the cases were probably original.
Now I'm sure I won't even watch these auctions any more - I had an eye on them. Thanks for pointing it out.

[retroleds]

I don't mind buying crap if the package clearly says manure.....

Inside - crudely bored inside...Swiss cases are lathe turned for smoothness.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic1.jpg

Cheap band....all Swiss bands of that era(and this) are marked 100% Stainless Steel.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic2.jpg

Creative buzzer insert laid on top of a plastic crystal protector film(note the red line across bottom of lower left disc/caseback).
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic3.jpg

My chinese friend tells me it it says 2006...I'll have to take his word on that.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic4.jpg

Etched back, crude aluminum faceplate insert...complete with film overlay on the front. For that quality look.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic5.jpg

Hard to see the brass bushing they pressed in to make the hole fit right(a Swiss manufacturer would have scrapped the parts) and more of that "smooth" machining on the inside. Right.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic6.jpg

My god, it's a huge flat spot on the third link from the case!! Sandpaper shortages lead to these kinds of quality control issues....I hear even toiletpaper is hard to get in some places.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic7.jpg

Ah, the wonderful asymetrical look carried to out to the smallest details - a link with a substantial radius along one side, but a sharp corner along the other. The Swiss would NEVER think of something so, so.......CHINESE!!!!!!
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic8.jpg

More amazing is the connection to leading "members"(we call those "dicks" or "pricks" here in the USA) of "the forum that wants to be .NU". Nothing .NU there...same old shit!
But that's a story for another day....I'll fill you in then.

[retroleds]

"The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing". Seems he's reading this thread

Reading is good. It was a small oversight , he's taken care of it.

[rewolf]

OMG, it looks like this "watch" was "assembled" with pieces from the scrapheap.

...My chinese friend tells me it it says 2006...I'll have to take his word on that.
http://www.dwf.nu/images/Fakesonic/Fakesonic4.jpg

Really interesting sticker to find inside a watch. It's obviously from a mobile phone charger/wall adapter. Input 100-200VAC, 50/60Hz, 200mA; output 5.5VDC, 500mA. Oh, and the little house symbol at the bottom right means "for indoor use only". Maybe the "watch" dissolves in rain...
I wouldn't expect better from a $5 watch, but these sell for very much more.

addition 2008-07-25: here's another victim http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?p=16472

[Fitron]

For what it's worht Beegeesled81 is Gary - he of the unintelligable rants who is also known for shill bidding on his own auctions. I know - trust me. I won't say how he gave himself away but he did. Avoid.

[retroleds]

Yeah, Gary and I both sharpened our poisen pens and sent love letters back and forth this morning. My final thrust regarding Gary was: short, fat, unemployed bastard who lives in his Dad's basement, rides a moped and can't get a women. Gary's final thrust at me was: big,sad fecker who has to pay his wife for sex and would be better off selling the old lady at $30 a half hour, rather than I try to make a living from selling watches.

I don't know - she looks more like $50 a half hour to me....

[Fitron]

she looks more like $50 a half hour to me....

You are so dead if she reads that...

I don't think that's your room, no watches lying about

[retroleds]

You are so dead if she reads that...
I don't think that's your room, no watches lying about

Nah, she has a great sense of humor....too bad she is laying down, great DDs. Ladies TC is just out of focus there.

Hotel room. But I really don't keep many watches about for myself per se, I just grab any old thing that is laying about that matches my attire....

[LEDluvr]

Ladies TC is just out of focus there

I was wondering what that watch was on her wrist.
It almost looks like an... analogue!! GASP!

[rita.jones56]

It can't be...is it?

[ledlover]

What are people's opinions, is this spaceman a fake?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0356244331

[retroleds]

Same fake p.o.s. that was mentioned in the start of this thread(same seller too...just changed his name). Read down the thread until you get to my pictures(11th reply from the top of this thread).. Sad thing is, he could dump those and still make a profit at probably $35-40 a piece, and the whole song & dance could cease.