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help needed on pulsars

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pigeon2

help needed on pulsars

Post04 Jul 2010, 20:35

hi can anyone tell me what the diverance is on the 14k gold filled watches and the 80 microns whatches that you see every now and again are these 80 micron watches rarer than the 14k gold filled pulsars thanks i hope some one can explain cheers
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Post04 Jul 2010, 20:52

Gold filled watches have a layer of gold, applied to them, that is 80 microns thick.

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Post04 Jul 2010, 21:15

yes i new that but what is the diverance if any and are they rarer
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Post04 Jul 2010, 21:19

I haven't seen any with 80 micron plating.
I prefer stainless steel myself.

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Post04 Jul 2010, 22:26

so whould they be more rarer than the 14k gf
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Post05 Jul 2010, 00:49

There was a discussion some time back about the difference between "gold plated" and "goldfilled". I don't seem to be able to find the original thread [if someone does, please post a link to it]. Briefly, plating is a process where metal is deposited on a surface by an electrical current, and goldfill involves filling a thin gold shell with a "base" [non-precious] metal. The thickness of the gold is measured in microns [.000001 meter or .001mm]. Platings are typically 2-10 microns; goldfill can be 20-100 micron..the industry standard seems to be 80 micron [.0032 inch]. In order to be legally marked "goldfilled". the weight of the gold must make up at least 5% of the total weight of the part [in the US, at least...other countries may have different standards]. Goldfill is a more complex, expensive, and durable process. So, there is no real difference in meaning between pieces marked "80 micron" and those marked "goldfilled", at least among the Pulsar and Omega watches. I don't think it has any effect on the value.
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Post05 Jul 2010, 07:01

I don't seem to be able to find the original thread [if someone does, please post a link to it]


Pete's post?

http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=3484&high ... old+filled
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Post05 Jul 2010, 17:50

Buried in that post(Pete's) is a link to this page that explains it all very well. Including designations such as 1/20 14k gold plate - what does it mean? Read and you will know. http://www.artisanplating.com/articles/ ... comparison

And follow their links to the faqs on gold plating.

I'd guesstimate the Pulsars marked gold-filled are 3-4 times more common than those that say 80m micron gold plate. I almost wonder if that "80 micron gold plate" is an improper marking by today's standards, as it is very difficult to achieve an 80 micron gold plating. 1-20 microns is the more reasonable plating limits.
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Post05 Jul 2010, 23:24

Actually, Ed, Time Computer NEVER made or sold a gold-plated watch. Everything they did was either solid gold or goldfilled. The marking on a Pulsar will be either "14K Goldfilled" or "L80 Micron". I have a late P3 caseback here with the L80 Micron stamp. The second marking IS less common, but it is a minor variation, and I don't think adds any special value to the watch. On the Omegas, the mark is somewhat more complex, and reads, "Carrure Lunette Plaque or L 80 Microns", in two lines, on the inside of the caseback. I always thought it a bit odd that GP chose to do their classic drivers' watch in gold plate, rather than goldfill; a bit of uncharacteristic corner-cutting by an upper-tier watchmaker.
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Post06 Jul 2010, 00:59

Bruce, you are correct - the Pulsars only indicate gold-filled or L80. But the Hamiltons do vary between indicating gold-fill and gold-plate, depending on models. I'd guess the L80 marked backs all came from factories in countries where the L80 marking is more common. :-?

I'm still amused by the backs that say nothing but stainless steel or 14k gold-filled, with no mention of Pulsar, Time Computer or Hamilton, inside or out.
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Post08 Jul 2010, 09:49

it's all a matter of production differences in certain countries and their standards.

goldfill is an American standard and was either not popular in Europe or was considered to expensive to produce.
this is probably the reason why you won't find GF cases on European top-shelf watches including the GP Casquette.
legal issues might have also been involved as it is almost impossible to quickly test a heavy GF case for solid-gold (without drilling to the base).
even for GP you have to scratch the case before applying the test acids.

only some German and French watches had rolled goldplate (RGP) cases in the art-deco period.
this was called Double and was limited to flat, square and easy to make cases.
RGP is also considered to be GF, especially that all bracelets were made with a RGP process but marked GF.

Omega case below, also marked inside the caseback.
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pigeon2

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Post08 Jul 2010, 11:25

thanks for all the help lads i understand a bit better now
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Post08 Jul 2010, 11:33

Side note... Hamilton cases are specifically marked "10K Rolled Gold Plate Bezel Stainless Steel Back". Why Hamilton went with rolled gold plate is anybody's guess...less expensive than goldfill...just to be different...who knows? And they went 10K instead of 14K; suggests cost was a more critical factor to them than Time Computer [who, to borrow a phrase, "Spared no expense" in producing their watches]. Seems like Hamilton was unique among American manufacturers in going with RGP, rather than simple plating or goldfill.
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Post08 Jul 2010, 11:52

I think RGP on Hammys was used because the design was simple.
Hammy cases do not have that many angles as Pulsars that would be impossible to cover with RGP as it uses one sheet of gold pressed into shape.

a side note: why are all the Omega and Pulsar RGP casebacks and bracelets marked GF? they are clearly made in a RGP process.
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