paranold pulsars forum?

[rewolf]

Actually, I was the person who first threw out some measurements on those resistors. I have no problem with admitting my results may have been flawed by moisture.

True, but as I wrote, Piotr first questioned the "heat speader/compensator resistor" theory AND then he presented measurements made under stable, known and repeatable conditions to back this up and at the same time falsify the temperature-dependency theory.

It is a huge difference trying to FALSIFY or to CONFIRM a doubtful theory. A single negative result will prove the theory to be incorrect, but hundreds of positive results don't necessarily mean the the theory is absolutely correct.
A theory is NEVER 100% proven. This is one of the basics of science. Always doubt! If nobody had ever doubted, we would still believe the earth is flat (though some people still at least pretend to believe this), the sun orbits around the earth, the planets are on spheres driven by angels, there is a god (or a flying spaghetti monster, depending on your religion), etc - and of course I'd sit in a tree house or a cave at a fire instead of a computer in an office - but I'd be happy anyway
If Piotr hadn't doubted, we would still believe the Pulsar has temperature-compensating resistors - only because some persuasive preacher told us.
Sorry for the rant - this is one of my favourite subjects . Doubt, question, insist, think, learn - don't just believe.
Ok, enough spoken

[azimuth_pl]

I dropped the forum last time due to fruitless disputes between the members of which some were eventually blocked. who was guilty at that time is not an issue, I wouldn't block them myself.
now I'm back in after a long period with a slight hope that the good old days might return, however I only have a very slight hope that the LED community will ever return to the Golden Years of 2003-2006.

OK, so if we have reached a certain agreement why don't we invite the other guys back in here and see what happens? let them talk and do anything until it becomes illegal... just like in real democracy.

btw. here are some interesting ideas on building online communities:
http://www.communityspark.com/the-real- ... -revealed/


btw. there is a long distance between "to doubt" a theory and "falsify" which means providing misleading evidence. that has never happened.
I prefer the word "doubt".
and I didn't start anything :) I just posted my friends expertease calculations. he is the electronics brain so it's his credit. he is reading this and perhaps decides to join one day.

[retroleds]

I dropped the forum last time due to fruitless disputes between the members of which some were eventually blocked. who was guilty at that time is not an issue, I wouldn't block them myself.
now I'm back in after a long period with a slight hope that the good old days might return, however I only have a very slight hope that the LED community will ever return to the Golden Years of 2003-2006.

OK, so if we have reached a certain agreement why don't we invite the other guys back in here and see what happens? let them talk and do anything until it becomes illegal... just like in real democracy.

btw. here are some interesting ideas on building online communities:
http://www.communityspark.com/the-real- ... -revealed/

1)Dennis Klien doesn't want to come back. He is not banned, his account is just not active. I have no real beef with Dennis, with just don't see eye-to-eye(and I don't agree with his thought of trying to "out" every person he thinks is gay. I'm straight, but that is a major issue for me. Totally uncalled for.).
2)Peter Formaeck left of his own free will.
3)Howard Rhiel...you really think that would be a good idea? And howard's email address is still sprinkled here and even in my review of the Synchronar over on www.thedigitalwatch.com. But after all the trouble people have had getting their money or watches back...
4)Phil Bowler - Tor banned him twice..."third times a charm".

Contrary to urban legand: Simon Alexander, Gary Lelec, Archer McClean and a few others I am missing, all still have active accounts here.

I think your wistful wishing for the past are blurring your memories friend. The infighting(long before I ever visited this place), the dirty deals, the lack of information sharing.

And again, this is not now, never was(even in the good old days) a democracy. You are trying to bully your way into getting your way. If you have $4000USD you can buy this forum off me and run it as YOU see fit. WE are not in a "certain agreement". The fact that YOU wouldn't block anyone shows you are a poor judge of charecter and don't have any appreciation for the effort I go to(imperfect as it may be) to provide a safe environment for people to interact regarding their digital watch collecting pastime. If I lose 0.05% due to misunderstandings, I can live with that. I do not have to repeat the past just to make sure. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". We won't be fooled again.

If it smells so damn bad in here, go find some fresh air - or consider that maybe you are the one smelling up the place.

[azimuth_pl]

well, I thought we have reached some kind of agreement but you're getting personal and insultive again. just because I insist on giving more democracy.
it might never have been a pure democracy in the old days but there was more freedom than we have today. that's what I'm referring to.
I'm not against or for anybody nor do I represent any side of the past conflicts.
I'd just like to see everybody in one place like in the old days.

the other contributors have either decided not to join or have lost interest or hope as it's not just a matter of opening the door but creating an atmosphere that there is room for more dispute.
btw. I never said that the infighting began when you appeared.
dirty deals or insults.... has anybody taken legal action? if not then those issues should be still within the law. as suggested in the online community link a moderator should not be a police officer.

thank God Ed, that you're not the only judge over here.
I've joined DWF long before you did so I'll stay and let the other members decide if they want to share my smell by listening to what I have to say.
I'm not the only one with such opinions but I guess I'm the only one who has decided to speak out loud. my risk.
but hey.. I'm still alive or? will I be able to login tomorrow?


btw.

...don't have any appreciation for the effort I go to...

I greatly value all kinds of efforts but even the greatest efforts might be dilluted by other actions.
did you know that many dictators raised their countries from ruin but turned them again into ruin with actions that followed?

[retroleds]

Piotr:
You are missing an important distinction - I am not a moderator, I am the site administrator. You are getting yourself freaked out over something you think is there(restriction), but you can't say where this is happening. No topics have been made taboo*, no threads have been squashed. You seem to think that it is your job to come to the defense of 2-3 people who are seemingly quite happy where they are. If you are going to insist on creating a problem where none existed until you came back, I ask you to voluntarily remove yourself from this situation. You are on the verge of being disruptive. Nobody asked you to come back - try acting like a guest that appreciates the surroundings, not a belligerent party crasher that wants to bring his friends along.

* although, as I have told you before,, repeatedly, there is a tacit agreement between the "rogue forum" and this one, that we will not speak of the past or each other, so as to maintain some decorum and peace at both sites. You are not helping!

Please read the "Mission, function and Behavior Guidelines" of the forum, as they have existed for the last 3 years.
http://www.dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=2239

And in case you forget, here is what the forum FOUNDER had to say. http://www.dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=1366 Doesn't sound terribly democratic.

[rewolf]

It is a huge difference trying to FALSIFY or to CONFIRM a doubtful theory. A single negative result will prove the theory to be incorrect, but hundreds of positive results don't necessarily mean the the theory is absolutely correct.
A theory is NEVER 100% proven.

btw. there is a long distance between "to doubt" a theory and "falsify" which means providing misleading evidence. that has never happened.
I prefer the word "doubt".

I used a misleading word here (a false friend...). By "falsify a theory" I meant "to prove that the theory is wrong". I derived it from "falsification" (German: Falsifikation). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsification, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsify

[rewolf]

So it has happened again.
Besides the 4 or 5 members Ed mentioned above that would be welcome but don't post here any more (I don't mean the banned), we have a new ex-member, Piotr Samulik aka azimuth_pl.
Piotr has informed me that he is now blocked from login to dwf.nu.
Here are his last words:

Hi Wolfgang,
.....
If you feel fit, you might just add a comment to that thread that I won't be joining you guys anymore.
I quote "you have worn the welcome mat" which seems a bit strange as I was not at the door but already inside long before he was.

I thought communities vote on their own but this was a one man/pull the trigger decision although I have not insulted anybody.
using the word dictator only shows what some actions can lead to, especially that I already talked about tyranny earlier.

all the best
Piotr

and later as a response to my question:

Banned that means blocked from login. I can live with that but I would like to end a discussion that has already started.
Without the possibility to reply it will appear that he won.
He didn't like the dictatorship comment although that is just what he had done.
He is not the whole community but appears to act like God.

I think Piotr deserves at least a few last words, that's why I post them here - and also because I agree with every word I quote from him.

Personally, I want to note that Piotr is still active on the "renegade" site http://www.dwf.cc. I'm there too (have always been), and the 4 or 5 "quiet but welcome here" members as well.


And as for Ed's "If I lose 0.05% due to misunderstandings, I can live with that.": I (rewolf) can NOT live with that if these 0.05% of members contribute 10% of useful postings and 20% of knowledge to the forum. Every lost member mentioned above was also a loss in this regard - this is how it feels to ME. I fear if we go on like this we'll only have newbie questions and the "endless assciation" thread one day. And BTW: we have less than 100 ACTIVE (total 1306 registered) members, so losing ONE means 1% and not 0.05%.


Ed mentions the founder's note, here's a full quote for easier reference.
OK guys, I don't care who did what to whom first.
If you want to talk about watches, great - that's what this forum is for.
But I will not tolerate childish personal attacks on anyone by anyone. Such posts will be removed. Talk about the watches, don't go attacking each other because it will only escalate and never end.
Before you post, ask yourself this question:
Is my post contributing to the discussion in a constructive manner; or is it an attempt to cut someone down?
If the former, please go ahead and post. If the latter, don't.
Offenders will be banned at my discretion.

Please note what founder Tor emphasized by underlining!
What happened here did happen because this rule was disregarded - by Ed the host, not Piotr the member.
It started exactly here, I quote the decisive part:
Let's be honest Piotr - you've told me repeatedly, privately, that you have an issue with me not rolling out the welcome mat for some people who are no longer here. And you are pissed(dissed?) that I won't do business with you, refer business to you or give you help via your one-sided, unsolicited emails. You have a stick up your arse over my "management style". TFB. (BTW: WTF does "TFB" mean? I even looked it up but found nothing useful).

Until that post, this thread was about the Oldpulsar forum, or forums in general, and I can se no accusations against our forum host, not even between the lines.
Then, out of a sudden, Ed went personal. When I read that post, I was horrified as I knew how it would end.


And no, I'm not going to leave this place (yet).

[retroleds]

Piotr and I have been in a personal cluster fuck of emails for quite some time(a few years) - it spans bad business deals, bad business referrals, and his desire to open the door to people who have been her and are no longer here for a variety of reasons... Piotr has pretty much laid it out that he intends to never give me any peace, since I explained to him about 6 months ago that I don't want to do business with him, in any form. He wants things his way, I want things mine - I cannot get up every morning to some new serving of his bad attitude toward me, sijmply because he feels personally responsible to a few people who don't seem to miss us(Dennis Klien in particular has done great, working more on his own projects instead of fighting with people here). Piotr is not banned, he is blocked. He has the same access as any visitor. And now he will continue to try to trash me using any thin line of communication he can. As I expected.

My request to him, also 6 months ago, was to "quit stirring the pot, nobody else wants to eat from it."

I personally feel that much of his "knowledge" is merely a repeating of other peoples facts, findings or theories. You(rewolf) on the other hand, have very consistently pulled out solid data(verifiable through other sources) for your opinions, which I can admire.

[J Thomas]

[retroleds]

My goal to keep this a relatively safe and sane place doesn't mean it will be perfect for all. Angry?-no. insulted? - this isn't my real life. Disappointed? - definitely. I am merely a gatekeeper.

Thanks for the opinions and thoughts of all....I'll try to resist commenting on this further. You guys can continue it as you will.

[rewolf]

Read what Piotr wrote (I quote the quote), and consider that we were discussing the OLDPULSARS forum policy, not dwf.nu! Then read Ed's answer.

IMO democracy would be possible based on HydePark Speaker's Corner methodology.
if there is a speaker/new thread, the people could either speak/discuss/argue or let the speaker talk to himself by going home or jumping to another more interesting thread.
speakers who talk to themselves (those who bullshit) would loose motivation by not getting any audience.
that would be a fair voting with democracy standards.

How is this substantially different from what we currently do? If a thread is boring, nobody chimes in. If someone is an ass, somebody will eventually tell them.

Let's be honest Piotr - you've told me repeatedly, privately, that you have an issue with me not rolling out the welcome mat for some people who are no longer here. And you are pissed(dissed?) that I won't do business with you, refer business to you or give you help via your one-sided, unsolicited emails. You have a stick up your arse over my "management style". TFB.

Maybe it's my limited knowledge of the English language (I'm not a native speaker), but I still can't see the provocation from Piotr.
IMVHO, Ed's answer was not MODERation, but the opposite: PROVOcation. Tor's basic rule violated - with the predicted result.


@Ed: I already stated that I don't know what was happening in the background. It must have been something bad.
That explains why you apparently understood (please note: I don't write MISunderstood) Piotr's words in a different way than I did (and still do), namely as a hidden personal attack to YOUR management style, not Oldpulsar's.
Piotr has AFAICS never disbehaved in the public. In private I don't know - but I DO know that it is easy to ignore annoying emails (just like spam - one click, deleted unread), unless you secretly LIKE being engaged in a "cluster fuck".
As Piotr wrote: "speakers who talk to themselves (those who bullshit) would loose motivation by not getting any audience". This holds true for emails as well.

And: knowledge is knowledge, no matter how you gained it. Most of what I know did I learn from someone.


@Jeff: I see your point.
Yes, Ed did "win" - depending on how you define "win". You could also say he "lost", namely an actively contributing member. For me as a member this is a loss, not a win. You could call this an egoistic point of view with some right.
I know I have NO rights here. I know Ed is "God". If he gets enough of it, he can simply shut down this whole place with a few mouseclicks. If I pray to other gods he can punish me .
And of course do I have the freedom to leave and go elsewhere - but I don't want to. Instead, I try to help keeping THIS place in pleasant condition - by trying to avoid that the same bad thing (unneccessary loss of contributing members) happens over and over again. Even if it has no effect - at least I did try. Try changing God, so to speak .


This is not so much about Piotr. I have no personal relation with him. Some time ago I bought a watch from him on ebay, but returned it for full refund because it had a hidden defect. That's all we ever had to do with each other.
For me the question is: is this forum also run for the benefit of the community, or solely for the personal enjoyment and profit of its owner?
I see that a member that annoys the whole community and contributes nothing useful is allowed to stay (pigeon2), but a member that annoys "only" the host and contributes a lot to the community (Piotr) is locked out (which is in effect the same as a ban in a forum that requires no registration to read).
So to me it has now (at last, some might say) become clear that this forum is run for profit only and the community effect is secondary, a nice, but unimportant, byproduct. This is my personal impression - it may be wrong.

I am aware it takes time and money to run a forum and Ed wants (and deserves!) some reward.
I was and am still grateful for the opportunity to waste a lot of time here (looking at the member list an hour ago I was quite surprised to find myself on 2nd position regarding number of postings ).



I believe I made very clear what I think of this. Nothing more to say from my side.
But, as the great German comedian Karl Valentin once said "All has been said - but not by all."

[clockace]

some of this is dismaying to read. not having any skills or knowledge of things electronic[watches esp as i am a sworn mechanical watch person] i have benefited greatly from the posts here. i am usually on several times/day and usually read ALL of the lastest posts whether or not i feel a need to, i am greatly impressed by the electronic skills being shared including Azmith's posts. whether this knowledge is real, coming from deep study in heavy textbooks or self acquired from hands on exp, if it helps some of us who are dumber i think it is worthwhile. i find there is a subtle, convuluted sense of humor here as well and some of us are still confused. i am still not sure is there is such a thing as a negistor or a resistor applied as part o a trace, temperature compensating or whatever. i do know that Breitling qc watches have a temp compensating feature that keeps them accurate to +/-10 secs/yr. i believe they do that by using a qc that is slightly off the 32768hz and then something in the electronics senses the error and speeds up or slows down the watch to keep it accurate. i would like to see the accusations kept private and only helpful things on the public posts. i have not done much here in a helpful way lately, but i do chime in now and then. i still have several synchronars to work on, but after getting 12 of them running i kind of burned out for a while. most of them are running very well and it has been by the help of this forum that most of this has been accomplished. end of rant for now.

peter

[charger105]

This very disappointing. Piotr is a real asset here.
I hope he can come back one day.

Rgds,
Andrew.

[rewolf]

... and some of us are still confused. i am still not sure is there is such a thing as a negistor or a resistor applied as part o a trace, temperature compensating or whatever...

The truth, as we currently know it, is here: http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?p=25893#25893: no temperature compensation.
And there is no such a thing as a negistor - at least not in a Pulsar. (You never know if some day someone will discover that negistors DO exist, but currently there is not even a consensus about the properties a negistor would have.)