New to the Scene - some guidance would be great

[Seiko Kid]

I never thought I would but for some reason I found myself bidding on this today!



An avid LCD collector with no LED knowlage except what from reading you guys have established here. Would anyone be so kind as to fill me in - Im 98% sure its a P3 and maybe possible to polish out the scratches but if it doesnt work, can it be gotton to?

[abem]

First off, nice watch - there are a lot of cool watches out there but the P4 executive is, in my opinion, quite possibly the most refined and elegant digital watch ever made. You have excellent taste.

From the photos, it looks to be in pretty good cosmetic condition. These watches were super well made (80 micron gold fill) and it should be easy to brush out superficial scratches and have it looking fabulous without too much of a problem. You might want to a search on the forum for tips on refinishing.

Getting a working one, however, is a bit of a challenge. Despite Pulsar's unrivaled and almost unblemished track record of producing hyper elegant timeless designs (thanks to Jean) with super high quality cases (thanks to Star), comfortable and stylish bracelets (thanks to Champion and Bear) and modules with bright super readable displays (thanks to Litronix)... despite all of the wonderful beauty and goodness, the modules do not have a very good track record for long term reliability.

Couple that with the low standards set by eBay, generally, the chances of getting a working watch from a listing where a watch is described as "untested" is maybe 1 out of 10. "Untested" usually means "tested and found to be non-working". So, don't get your hopes up too high. There is still a chance, but not a super high one.

That said, there are still a few routes available to getting a working Pulsar.
(1) find a beater Pulsar on eBay to harvest the module from. For a P4, this will generally cost you at least $150 to $200. You may have to watch eBay for a few months to find something. If you had a P2 or P3, you could harvest a module from a Hamilton QED, but since you have a P4, the only option is another P4, unfortunately.
(2) have your module repaired
It's remotely possible that you might have a module with a simple fault such as a faulty quartz crystal or reed switches. If your module falls into this category, then you can check with people such as the forum owneer Ed (retroleds@aol.com) who perform these types of repairs. Reed switches and crystals are pretty easy, but often the problem is deeper and unrepairable.
(3) have your module rebuilt
If your module is hopelessly dead, you can have the module rebuilt with new circuitry but using the original display and plastic carrier (which are no longer made). A guy in Germany (named Hanno) has a company called "Strikes and Spares" which has pioneered a way to rebuild vintage watch modules using modern microcontroller circuitry - quite an amazing feat! To have your module rebuilt, you'll need to send your watch off to Germany so it will take a little while. For your watch, you'll want either an SASM30 or SASM31 which will cost 129 Euros:
http://www.strikesandspares.de/com/modpulsar.htm

So, cross your fingers (and perhaps sacrifice a TI to the time gods). Perhaps you'll get lucky and be the proud owner of a gorgeous working P4 Exec. If not, you've got a "project watch" with a couple of avenues available. It may take a little longer to get a working watch than you originally expected but once you do, it will be something wonderful to behold.

Good luck!

-abe.

[Ade51]

Hi, if you really like the look of the P4 Executive in gold filled (and I do) you may also like the P3 in gold. There is a fully working one here with box, papers and extra magnet which looks to be in as good as condition

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280726110402? ... 1423.l2649

The only issue is that there is some engraving on the back. However if you really want the P4 they do come up on ebay fairly often

I see the one you were bidding on has ended - did you get it?

[Andy_from_Perth]

What an amazingly informative reply by 'abem', thanks for that.

[Seiko Kid]

Firstly a big thank you to the forum members who have replied and contacted me. I will declare now I am completely out of my depth here and this venture is just a bit of fun, although I dont wish to start collecting LED's I do and would like 1 decent fully working Pulsar LED watch.
I know my digitals inside and out but from what I have read here, the work concentrates more on electronic diagnosis. I was hoping to try n fix one up but I have a feeling I will end up buying a working one!

Anyway, here is my find so far, yes I won the P4 on eBay, I thought I got it for a good price?

I have uploaded some pictures and have the following questions -

What is the correct price and did I get a fair deal?

What is the meaning of Goldfilled?

Can the crystal be buffed out

I tested the reed switches and all 4 are working, apart form that is there any other test I can carry out before I consider sending it for repair

Finally , is it worth repairing or should I relist it back on the bay?

Thank you and I look forward to you comments

I have since given the module a little clean with alcohol

[Andy_from_Perth]

i wish i could be of more help, but here goes.

gold filled means plated or 'rolled'
yes scratches can be removed from the crystal, not sure on your scratches tho.
not sure on the price.

yes looks worth keeping if you like GF
cheers

[Seiko Kid]

Thanks Andy,

I had Hanno drop me a line and I now know it needs a replacement mod as this ones cooked!

I asked about the glass as my scratches seemed a bit uncommon for the polishing treatment., its like a silver pen has left a mark on the crystal!!!

Further to the GF question - I take it this means it is not plated - rather gold is pressed or mixed into the metal when it is put in the mould?

[Andy_from_Perth]

nah i think it means plated - as in electroplated probably?

[Seiko Kid]

Right!. Gotcha.

[retroleds]

SeikoKid: Try something that dissolves mineral stains on sinks and toilets - here in the States we have a product called CLR. Just a little on a cotton swab and you can easily clean off some of the green and white corrosion, which may be causing some shorting. The corrosion is impervious to alcohol.

And what does the module do, if anything? A swap of the quartz crystal might bring it back around. Unfortunately, that movement requires one to unsolder virtually every visible component that isn't directly on the main board with the display, so it can be flipped over and the real works exposed. Many of those had a small breach in the circuit cover, and the corrosion internally is phenomenal, but no way to know without tearing it down to that point. And it is a pain to test with all disconnected. I generally don't go that far into those for my repair customers, since nobody wants to pay for 3-4 hours worth of my time, as I go back and forth on those that visually appear to have some potential. Generally the safer bet is to rebuild the module with either a new circuit such as the SASMs, or using a Sanyo circuit, which is virtually identical, save for the flick-wrist feature. For myself, I wait until I have 5-10 of those to work on, crack them all open at the same time and try to pull slightly ahead on the game due to a small "assembly line approach". I did that about 2 years ago and produced a small crop of working P4s. Darn, time for me to do that again.

Your "silver pen" mark - something got embedded into the glass, probably a hard rub against a piece of aluminum(like office furniture) or softer steel. Look on the 'Net for some .5 or 1 micron diamond lapping film. A drop or two of water, a few minutes of hand rubbing, Voila! You'd only need a little piece a few cm in size...

[retroleds]

nah i think it means plated - as in electroplated probably?

No, incorrect. If it was electroplated it would say electroplated. G/F or rolled is a thin sheet of gold that is bonded to the base metal. It is much better quality generally, as electroplating is softer, due to being deposited on the metal a molecule at a time. Electroplating is more likely to have microscopic holes or pits, which leads to premature failure of the finish.

[abem]

As for the mark on the crystal, from the appearance of the logo it appears that you have a rare version of crystal that is actually made of clear sapphire with thin layer of red filter material laminated rather than the more common red mineral glass. The silvery streaks are places where the red filter has come delaminated from the sapphire leaving clear streaks.

The good news is that this is a rare and desirable type of crystal. The bad news is that it's not easily repairable. You might be able to hide the damage with red ink or something to make the clear streaks less obvious. I don't know - just a guess. Perhaps someone with experience has some tips on Pulsar sapphire crystal repair.

-abe.

[retroleds]

As for the mark on the crystal, from the appearance of the logo it appears that you have a rare version of crystal that is actually made of clear sapphire with thin layer of red filter material laminated rather than the more common red mineral glass. The silvery streaks are places where the red filter has come delaminated from the sapphire leaving clear streaks.
-abe.

Abe:
Have to disagree, based on his pictures. The streaks are on the surface, they do not start at the edge, they are shaped very differently from de-lamination damage.

From what I've seen the laminated glass was made in two varieties, for all models that offered a Sapphire crystal(even some green Dress):
(1) thick Sapphire with a thin, red plastic filter on the back. Or..
(2) almost equal thicknesses of clear Sapphire and red glass, bonded together.
Either way, the delamination always starts at the edge, looking almost like a liquid between two layers of glass. Removing any of those pretty much finishes them off,except the ones with the thicker Sapphire pieces can be rebonded to fresh filter material. The ones with the two equal layers are just f'd .

[abem]

Ed - after inpecting the appearance of the edges of the crystal, I think you're probably right - looks like mineral glass. It's hard to tell sometimes from the photos - much easier in person.

-abe.

[Seiko Kid]

Right , here are some more pictures. I tried the rubbing with 800 and 1200 grade alluminium mesh cloth - same stuff I use for polishing up my LCD cases. Nothing!

The Pulsar logo is sitting proud on the crystal, not grooved into it

I cant feel any film and after a bit of serious rubbing nothing peeled or the like!

When I rub my nail over the marks there is no indentation or raise. its just smooth

[retroleds]

Ed - after inpecting the appearance of the edges of the crystal, I think you're probably right - looks like mineral glass. It's hard to tell sometimes from the photos - much easier in person.

-abe.

Abe: Hell, I want to change my answer now. His inside shot makes it lok like delaminating. BUt I still think it is just a bad "rub".

Seiko: That is either very hard mineral glass or Saphhire - your aluminum mesh cloth won't phase them much. Diamond lapping film is great stuff - feels like common overhead plastic, with a fine matt finish on one side. That "matt" is a layer of lab created diamond dots. All perfectly uniform, rarely to leave a scratch, like other sandpaper technologies do when a granule comes loose. 1 micron diamond lapping compound will work too, but the film is really clean and easy to use.

[Seiko Kid]

Thanks for your input guys, I ll try n get hold of what you recommend Ed and go form there. Cleaning the case is not a problem, sometimes I use a fibre pen for the green mould

Regarding my other questions on this particular watch. Is it worth spending the money and getting a new Module? Its a lot for me , I know the realistic ways with LCD's but this I have to be careful as I just cant afford to spend all the money just to find its only on a personal preference.

I hope you guys understand me there?

[abem]

I originally thought that it looked like heat was applied to the inside of the case where that brownish spot is and I figured that could be related to the hypothetical delamination. However, it looks like the problem is limited to the outside surface of the crystal, so that theory is shot.

Also, in one of his later photos, the logo appears to be applied on the outside surface of the crystal instead of sandwiched in the sapphire layers, which makes it look like a mineral crystal too. So, oops, my mistake!

-abe.

[Andy_from_Perth]

nah i think it means plated - as in electroplated probably?

No, incorrect. If it was electroplated it would say electroplated. G/F or rolled is a thin sheet of gold that is bonded to the base metal. It is much better quality generally, as electroplating is softer, due to being deposited on the metal a molecule at a time. Electroplating is more likely to have microscopic holes or pits, which leads to premature failure of the finish.

interesting, yeah i was only guessing about how the GF is applied.

i thought if i bumped up the thread it might get his questions answered properly - which it has

[Seiko Kid]

Look on the 'Net for some .5 or 1 micron diamond lapping film. A drop or two of water, a few minutes of hand rubbing, Voila! You'd only need a little piece a few cm in size...

I have found some here in the UK, however it is £54 per sheet!

If anyone can buy it cheaper or is prepared to sell a small piece I would be grateful

Thanks

[retroleds]

Yeah, I knew that would be a problem - that stuff is generally sold in packs of like 50 sheets, for a few hundred dollars/pounds.

Send me a PM and I'll make arrangements to send you a 1/4 of a sheet for marginally more than postage.

Alternatively, look for 1 micron diamond lapping compound - greasy crap, put a dab on a piece of old leather, use that to rub those spots out. But the lapping film works a lot faster - all the grains you pay for are on the surface, not buried in a rag or a piece of leather or felt.

[Seiko Kid]

So, after an hour or so ( first half hour was rubbing without any water !! , seemed to be getting no where then I realized! ) it has some off completely. I thought I d just rub the metal a touch too and without spending the next 3 years anally trying to get it perfect I am satisfied with the results.

I suspect I could spend a bit more time in the future with the 0.3 Micron smoothing the crystal over?

Thanks again to Ed for sending me the necessary materials needed!